Paladin: No ultimate, No lvl 15 talent, no lvl 30 talent, and nerfed in most fights, and requires a healer, and is worse as a secondary tank

paladin ~15k + bard ~6k + bard constant 5% damage boost 4-6k + paladin str/int boost ?k.

also pretty sure I’ve seen bard do more than 6k

more like 25-27k+ and that’s not adding the bard ultimate which boosts damage by 20%(on top of the already 5% boost) for ~12 seconds, which combined with ultimates from the DPS is probably adding quite a bit more.

that and there would be absolutely no reason to bring a warrior if paladins could do the same, since
warriors do pretty much no damage at all.
there are also some fight you can do on t10 as a paladin and the ones that you can’t do as a warrior without a healer, it’s better to take a paladin for the extra damage since you already need a healer anyway.

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I can do 10-11K easy on trash running 2 dps songs and 1 healing with my bard.

the paladin in our guild can easily tank

most of our records have been with bard healers. I get excited when someone wants to bring their bard because I know that all the top dpsers get that extra mad bonus. This is besides the point here though I guess. The thread is contending the viability of a paladin/healer combo which really hasn’t been a problem in 5 mans and notably not really an issue in raids… I would like to get @Burnator 's opinion on it really if he wants to.

Interesting no healer needed on Lich King :thinking:

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Palladian has a lot harder with trash after the last update. Going no healer on the trash mobs is equal to death. I can take the tankbusters now, but overall I take more damage. A lot of mechanics got broken with the last update, and I would probably prefer it as it used to be before we got the tankbuster shield.

I more or less traded two controls damage reductors to one 1.5 sec immortality, that’s basicly the same as having a verry limited warier shield.

The ult talent REALLY needs to be removed. Not picking it seems to fix the ult getting stuck problem.

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So it definitely sounds like there are some bugs mentioned in here that need to be addressed…can we get a list of current bugs that you all are experiencing sans the Warrior/balancing notes?

It sounds like one is the ultimate ability getting stuck, and another is the new way of triggering the Plea talents (with the “warrior charge move”) is really unreliable? Were there others that I didn’t gather? We can work on getting those fixed in the short-term.

Yes. If you so much as lift your offhand from your thigh it kicks off. If you could require the hand be some distance from the body it will be better.

On T10 the adds destroy paladins without a healer

On T10 no healer?

What is ur goal for paladin? To be equal to warrior? To be a off tank? To be a useless class that does it’s job worse than others like ranger?
Paladins can tank T10s because frankly, T10s are easy. But no top clear time on any of the dungeons was cleared with a paladin, which speaks enough for itself

Yes same for warrior

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Doesn’t a top speed mostly depend on how lucky you get with rezzes anyway?

To an extent, but above that is how quickly and effiently u can continue killing in the dungeon, if u have slow dps no luck on rezzes is gonna give u a top time

While slower dps does matter, It is not, in my opinion, nearly as significant as wiping / having a few extra poisoners or colossi show up

Edit: Kamina,did you mention the paladin’s constant incoming damage reduction in your post? I feel that’s an important thing to remember.

I just logged in after kind of a long time, the lvl30 talent was almost impossible to not activate by accident when you do anything. I really do not think the matter of needing heals and such are a big deal for pally since its quite different playstyle and you will probably not care for that little loss of DPS (in relation to all DPS) under normal circumstances (obviously bad for time records but then again who knows, pally feels really good on Lich King for example). I also felt like aggro generation for suddenly appearing adds is a bit more tight on the paladin due to lower range on the taunt libram and the mission to be able to have 2 charges ready at any time (which is hugely dangerous as I used to get 3 charges easily from getting autoattacked before, although this information might be outdated havent tested for a few weeks now), but I still think its okay since again we are a different class with different strenghts and weaknesses going into tanking, PvP etc.

Other than that I think this topic touches on a lot of problems the Paladin has in terms of PvE content, I especially feel the pala ultimate problem as its just both underwhelming in effect and absolutely unfeasible practically.

Those are two of them. Ult getting stuck seems to be related to the damage reduction talent associated with it.

-On the quest the shield animation gets stuck in front of you quite often until the next time you activate it.

-books sometimes don’t activate when grabbed, requiring multiple tries.

-Description ad Palladian in compass book is out of date. How they work is mostly just guess work.

-hammer hits have a delay on registering and have a bit of a strange hitbox when throwing. Worst against moving enemies and players.

  • in case of high latency you can fully fill up your orbs without them showing.

The plea talent goes off a bit whenever. The warier activates the charge by holding your hand to the side slightly behind you, but that’s the standard position for the off hand for a paladin. Having it back to razing your off hand would be nice, and making the Light’s Defense trigger activated, making it a bit more exsact.

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  • Switching zones takes out all your orbs, and restarts the timers for all of your abilities, which (unlike for every other class in the game) takes about 20s to reset (15s to get orbs to 5, 5 more seconds to have lightning call ready again)

Less a bug and more of a serious problem:

  • Paladins have terrible ability to hold aggro. With two attacks every 5s, plus whatever defending against attacks brings you in, you get max 10ish attacks in a tankbuster cycle against a solo enemy, or maybe three hammer smashes against a group. (I’m assuming 4-6 orbs generated by taking damage, which is probably on the high side).

Super easy to pull off a paladin, especially to re-pull after losing aggro (because you go from 8-10 orbs in 12s to 4 orbs tops). Paladin loses aggro, chances are paladin does not have any orbs left, paladin uses local taunt if off cd, enemy maybe gets one attack in and is immediately pulled off again.

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I haven’t had that much experience tanking on it, so I can’t speak to the other stuff, but I can confirm that the threat generation is on the low side.

Same is true for Shaman. Assuming they come back at all

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