Patch 10.96- Hard Mode Raid Beta

Announcements
#31

Yea it’s supereasy with enough dmg and yet you can’t do that with low-dmg groups - it’s not only the gear, but mages practicing etc. -, as we tested. Btw it’s hard to test since taking in only one veteran player could make a change. Some do as much dmg as a whole pug-raid, alone. But content is hardly intended for people pulling others like that.

@Sift you’re entirely missing the point, sorry. I played mmos 15y before you were born, likely :smiley: . We had 8h raids in Wow back then, with 40 people and went for server firsts over a long time, not only practicing but reading up on mechanics before new bosses even came out.
However, this is VR and the raid is NOT the hm (which we won’t even attempt with a low-dmg group why should we??) and the topic is also NOT that the raid is hard. It is about one single boss sticking out of the others which is not even the endboss. All similar balance-threads are misunderstood easily if you can’t grasp the logic behind.
So nope, you are not supposed to ‘practice’ countless hours on minor bosses where you know the mechanics already and which you overleveled by 2 tiers of gears, filled to the brim with enh. potions, why should you. If you have to it’s just bad design.
And where on earth did you get that raids are automatically the “hardest content in the game” btw - the opposite is the case, here a repost:

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#32

So apparently you still lose stuff with pvp on when graveyarding when back from the hard raid :expressionless:

#33

So the thing about mages practicing is that the skill required for ‘balanced’ damage is relatively low, on the order of one spell per second. The issue at play is that, unlike other classes who are balanced at their maximum output, mages have a super high, nearly unlimited maximum output going along with their skills. The skill cap is virtually non existent and because of this, mages that get better than the balanced one spell per second are able to put out completely unbalanced dps and break the balance of the content. Bringing a mage who can cast twice per second is equivalent to bringing at least 2 rangers at maximum dps output and probably 4 to 5 unskilled dps.

#34

I’d recommend using your home teleport while in the raid and then graveyard from the void in your house, I lost 2 sets of potions trying to leave the raid normally, so the next time I left I home teleported and it was fine

#35

I just want to clarify some things here:

Our best ranger can deal a nice 45k dps stable. I deal 45k dps stable. There are only 2 other mages in the game that I know of who can comfortably go above the 45k dps threshold and that is it.

Our best ranger who deals 45k dps is also not using the ‘intended optimal PvE talent set’ because it just does not work for PvE viably right now (something brought up with the dev team that I hope they address).

I would argue that rangers are unable to play using optimal talents hence a lack of damage to reach cap.

Quantifying the damage output from reading many logs i can say that this is not true. A mage casting at 2 spells per second can deal around 60k dps. 1 rangers maximum dps output (as I clarified above) is around the 45-50k dps mark (depending on circumstances and bleed luck). That leaves space for maybe one dpser learning to play who deals lets say 10-15k dps or on the extreme a practiced dpser at 20k dps.

So yes, the highest dealing mages can scale harder on damage than a ranger but let’s not over exagerate things…

On the subject of boss 2 in normal…

I believe the perfect achievements are doing quite well at showing a ‘holding your own’ on the mechanics.

if we can see that teams are taking down boss 2 with some practice, then whats the problem? Maybe make boss 5 on normal to be harder somehow?

The dev teams intention if I remember correctly (something Riley wrote a while back) is that the normal bosses should be kill-able with a bit of practice. if there are bosses you are killing without ‘practiced players’ in normal mode, you should let Riley know.

#36

Oh nevermind. It looks like normal mode boss 5 is probably harder now.

#37

2 thinga: The people who are taking it down have higher gear than the intended +0. We are also not using the intended strat to take it down because thats not really possible.

Unless you way out gear the content, you are pretty much only going to be able to kill one add per dps phase. This would be fine (still hard due to stacking mobs), except that they don’t always give you 2 dps phases to kill the adds before more spawn. If you only kill one add per phase (the norm), on the third add wave, you are guaranteed to have 3 adds up. On the 5th add wave, you would have 4.

All they need to do to make it possible (for the intended gear level) is to always give 2 phases to dps the adds, or to spawn one add each time the shield goes on the boss.

Remember, just because it can be beaten doesn’t mean it is balanced correctly, especially when the people who are beating it are either way out gearing the content or are completely ignoring the mechanics of the boss and just hoping they can burn the boss down before everyone dies.

#38

The Dev team know that you can burn the boss down and off tank the ads. That’s why they added the perfect achievements (which are not supposed to be easy to get).

I believe it is their intention that the boss is built this way.

Unless you are saying you are unable to burn down boss 2 whilst off tanking ads with some practice then I don’t see the problem.

#39

but the perfects are easy to get for most of the bosses… and you should be able to kill the boss with the intended strat (perfect) without having more than +0 gear. The second boss in the dungeon should not be the hardest by far like it is.

the only reason you can ‘just burn the boss down’ is that the mechanic for the stacking buff isnt punishing enough( or there is some bug that limits how many stacks he gets or if there is a bug that resets his counter).

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#40

So what you’re telling me is:

  1. You don’t even bother to kill the adds (a whole half of the mechanic, mind you)
  2. The devs already know you don’t bother to kill the adds
  3. The fact that you can kill the boss while an offtank runs around with the adds just like boss 2 in Oldbus is okay with them?

This just proves the point that the obviously intended fight (switch off adds and boss) is not happening.

#41

Offtanks have to tank the ads. You cannot kite them anymore. That was patched a long time ago.

Yes, burning the boss is a legitimate strategy but not the perfect strategy. if you are finding it hard to get a perfect run on this boss then that is a good thing. Getting perfects was never intended to be done with a group of +0’s.

If the other perfects are too easy to get, maybe they should be made harder.

#42

Imo ignoring a mechanic entirely is not a valid strategy. Allowing the players to ignore your mechanics is bad design. If players are ignoring the shield mechanic and just burning through the boss, then i would either make him take significantly less damage while he’s shielded or make him wipe the party immediately when it gets to a certain number of stacks.

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#43

boss 2 a pastry
an OP pastry that is

#44

Just skippin in here, our whole “gear-up” raid (2 experienced, 4 rather new dps - not green-geared, but around +1-2 already) did 50-52k dps, alltogether. Welcome to Orbus… and out.

PS: And perhaps one word about ‘challenges’, the problem is not that we couldn’t progress, with time, the problem is most people don’t stick around that long. No clue if we are 10 again next week or ppl already gave up on this. The ‘challenge’ in my timezone is to get a daily group of 5 and a weekly group of 10 together to even play the content. Since day 1 of the OG I play with ever-changing groups of people not staying long enough to develop their chars and I do not only blame this on the game, but also on VR as a medium. Right now some say it’s too hot, pc mmos are more fun and allow to progress faster, then they get hooked by these not showin anymore etc. etc.

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#45

So the problem is player retention in the game than the raid content itself?

I am so lost as to what the problem actually is.

#46

So what you’re saying is that new players aren’t doing enough damage? That makes sense considering that everyone who played in preborn has a huge head start in practice and play time.

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#47

I get that the route cause to the dismay might be the fact of player retention it makes sense…

If people keep quitting then they never skill up. In Oldbus, the only way we managed to give ourselves challenges is to re-gamify the game by creating our own challenges after a while.

I think it is very apparent that it is true that stickiness is extremely low considering the throughput of players vs daily active users.

I am convinced that it is not the medium though… But that the Orbus team need to get in an experienced mobile gaming growth hacker even as a consultant to help them retain DAU through hook mechanisms.

#48

I think this would be a huge step in the right direction, and it would help the game to keep the new players playing.

#49

image

Wasn’t the normal raid supposed to require at least +2 gear? If only a few members have any shard gear at all, it’s understandable the raid party would have a rough time

Edit: even with +1 or 2, if you have multiple new players they’re dps will be lacking due to skill anyway.

#50

nope riley wanted it to be done by completley green people