Pally is fine had no problem making reliable tiles for em
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Ill show you the cap in game. The server seems to force a cap. The rest is down to min-maxing spell rotation to ensure a constant 30% damage increase uptime on tilesets and ALWAYS using triplicity on CD basically…
Well Generally, Rangers could do with 2 changes that I think would fix this:
- Make it so that tilesets can be procced somehow for that 30% rather than intermittent tileset damage.
- give other ways to increase damage… Some double speed mode… Right now firing one shot per second is probably too easy for rangers… maybe increase that speed by 1.5 with some talent.
I’ve been saying this since weak points were added, add a tile for hitting them
Still want to see a video of that server forced cap 
If there is any kind of cap it’s beyond 2 spells per second because that is what mages are already doing and what is making them OP.
Ranger
- The base damage of Ranger shots has been increased by approximately 15%.
- The damage bonus of Ranger globes has been increased from 14% to 15% per globe.
- The damage of Ranger’s Power Shot has been increased by approximately 10%.
@Landru lets go in a dungeon and test this when we get the chance.
its about 2.3 but I hope this rebalance for rangers will do the job.
We will share more logs once we test it to help and see if it still feels ‘off’.
I am not sure that scoundrels needed a nerf in potential maximum damage but actually what you’ve done here is made it so that more skill is required to hit higher numbers (which is great). We will let you know what numbers this produces in dungeons too.
I am glad it was moved from base shot damage because that was what was being used to RIP people too fast in PvP.
After testing this in dungeons. The problems we came to is that:
- The damage that is doable by the top ranger still seems to be around 20-50% less than the top rune mages (obviously situational) whilst the average runemage and the average ranger can compete head to head.
- The skill cap on rangers feels too low. There is not enough emphasis on damage increase from weak spots which currently is what dictates the skill cap.
Just to be clear, I believe this result was based on testing the acknowledged highest-DPS Mage in the game against one of the best Rangers. For 99% of players I think the DPS should be around the same now.
As for that top 1%, the gulf between even a top-5% Mage and a top-1% Mage is just really, really high right now. I’m not sure it’s possible to balance the game allowing that big of a gap, honestly. I’m not sure what the solution is there (diminishing returns of some kind?) but when we have Mages breaking the 2 spells/second barrier, compared to even a “really good mage” doing around 1-1.2 spells/second, that’s going to result in a balancing problem. I want to keep that really high skill cap on Mages, and allow people to keep eeking out those additional gains, but we may have to figure out how to do it such that those additional gains only add like 5% or 10% to your DPS, not 30%+, because that’s really skewing the numbers.
I will say, though, that I am interested to see how Raid fights play out in all this. I believe this test was done on the dungeon boss where you literally just get to stand there as a DPS and deal straight damage to the boss most of the time (no required movement or anything). Not that we shouldn’t balance there too, just that I’m curious to see if some DPS classes shine in some situations versus others.
At any rate, thanks for the feedback, and if you have additional results/information you’d like to share, please feel free to do so. We’re planning to do some additional tuning ahead of the Raid launch for Scoundrels as well (I believe the general consensus is they may have gotten to a good place in PvP but are now over-nerfed in PvE).
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…just so you know most of us held of on dps to give boss mechanics a chance to appear.
I don’t understand why the top 1% needs a nerf after they have put so much work into becoming the top 1%. Maybe someone can show me why the class actually needs a nerf, but as far as I see it, mage is the hardest class in the game, so it should already be stronger than the rest at low skill levels at least by a little, but if you are able to get really good at it then you should be well above the rest.
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no, just because it’s hard, doesn’t mean it should be stronger. that’s not how games should be balanced
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The raid logs were/have not been used to assess balance just yet.
That makes no sense. Why should mages have to play a way harder class, but not do any more damage than the others?? I think that’s absolutely how it should be balanced. The harder you try, and the more work/effort you put in, the better the results are.
EDIT: Of course the top 1% of the hardest class in the game is going to be stronger than the top 1% of the easiest class in the game because it is harder to become one of the top 1% as a mage compared to a shaman, for example. (bugs have nothing to do with skill, so don’t bring up shaman bugs)
The issue is with diminishing returns with increased skill level. Every other DPS class has them, mages don’t. The only solution to balance the classes is to add diminishing returns to mages. The mage class would still be just as challenging and the best mages would still be rewarded by being able to beat other mages but just not by the same degree.
I don’t think there’s any doubt that Mages in that top 1% should do more damage than a top 5% Mage. And I think skill ceiling should dictate top DPS. Right now the highest skill ceiling in the game is the Mage and I think most 1% Rangers would argue we should put in more mechanics to increase their skill ceiling if anything.
However, at the same time we can’t balance a game having 99% of Mages dealing X damage and 1% dealing X+50%. X+10%? Sure I think that’s fine and that makes sense.
In addition to all of this, I am finding out more information about this test and it sounds like the Ranger DPS wasn’t being done with some of the highest-DPS talents so that gap may not be as large as originally reported. (Not their fault due to the fight layout, but again I’m not sure this is a really accurate test if it was done without some of the Ranger talents that could easily add 20-30% more DPS) More data needs to be gathered than just one dungeon run before any decisions would be made, and it may be that the Ranger talents just need some tuneups so the highest-DPS ones can be used in more situations than they are available currently.
There is no limit to the difficulty of any of the classes. There is always room to improve and no one will ever be perfect. The question is about the amount of benefit the classes get from making those improvements.
Every mage in the 99% has the potential to reach where the 1% is currently. Why they haven’t already? I have no idea, but I see no reason to nerf the 1% of mages that have simple worked harder than the other 99%. I honestly don’t get it.
That is called having talent, the right vr headset and the lowest ping Sift. Missing 1 of the 3 and you won’t reach the 5%. No matter how much you try.
The only thing we want to change is having max ranger not be 30% less then max mage but have it max ranger be maybe 10% less then max mage. Sounds more fair and still mages more OP for really trying, right?
Uhhhh I disagree… mage is harder than shaman, scoundrel, and archer. Not to discredit the efforts of the players who main any of these other classes. I take pride in the fact that I have put so much work into the class, and that I am able to achieve such numbers, as do the other top mages in the game to my knowledge, and to say that the top 1% (which is like 5 people) should do 40% less damage is baffling to me.
Well, I think what I’m saying is, the amount of DPS those top 1% Mages are doing right now is higher than intended. But if I nerf the Mage down to where it would make sense for those Top 1% Mages to be in balance with the rest of the game, then no one but a top 1%'er could even play a Mage because anyone else would do really low damage compared to the rest of the DPS classes.
So a better solution (I think) is to balance the game around the top 5% of Mages matching the top DPS of other classes, and then allowing those top 1% Mages to break through that barrier a little bit (since as stated, it is a lot of work and practice), but not to the degree that it’s totally game-breaking.
I hope that helps clarify. My goal here is not to make it so that it’s not worthwhile to put forth effort to become great at the game at any class. But there’s clearly a new “tier” of Mage potential that has been unlocked in Reborn, and we have to take that into account someplace when balancing the game, after all.
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