Pvp Paladin nerfed to hard?

[Burnator]

@dylan_l1 what do you actually want in this conversation that “should” be about if palladins are overnerfed or not?

Do you think they are fine now?

Do they need more damage reduced?

Less health?

Inability to move?

[Burnator]

Because right now they are not a tank, not a range class, not a melle class, and not a healer class. They don’t have a proper position in a group. They have a hammer toss, but this dose not do a +10 dodge bonus like you seem to think. Those dodges work just as well as other classes

[Quick_J]

Because right now they are not a tank, not a range class, not a melle class, and not a healer class.

They are currently all the classes. Since they are a tanking class, they should be similar to a warrior with different skills. As I mentioned before there damage should be nerfed and health/ damage reduction increased.

[zachariah_c]

the paladin in pvp should have less heals in pvp and less damage. because they are tanks that require way less skill in pvp in comparison to warrior but do more damage for less effort live longer cause they can try to reduce damage from magic and they don’t have to worry about people just shooting below a shield cause they got damage reduction no matter where they get hit and they can heal without chasing people to do a provoke

[Kamina]

warrior but do more damage for less effort

warriors can 1 shot people with a wound

they got damage reduction

we have no damage reduction

[zachariah_c]

warriors can 1 shot people with a wound

if a warrior can charge wound up on people then it takes two or three charged wound hits to kill someone. plus the game currently likes stealing fully charged combos see this form. all of which a paladin doesn’t have to deal with to the large amount of damage they get from unloading 5 pips of damage. .

[Atropos]

the large amount of damage they get from unloading 5 pips of damage. .

By this you mean clearing 60%ish of someone’s health, then either successfully waiting 15 seconds to get pips again or dying?

[zachariah_c]

yup 60% alot for having it prepared before combat is initiated in comparison to warrior

[Atropos]

Yeah maybe, but your shield actually works. No damage reduction on paladin. Also you can still swing and hit things for damage at a constant rate. Paladin gets a 5 pip headstart maybe and then 2/15s.

[zachariah_c]

the shield has limited usefulness against most classes cause they can just aim at my feet or head or reach over or through the shield to hit but it is a definitely messed up that paladin has no damage reduction especially cause they a tank class. my basic swings do squat like how basic paladin swings do squat. buts way easier and quicker to get those pips up against most pvpers who jump around which thx to a current bug means half of my “hits” dont hit

[Atropos]

my basic swings do squat like how basic paladin swings do squat. buts way easier and quicker to get those pips up against most pvpers who jump around which thx to a current bug means half of my “hits” dont hit

1. Warrior basic attacks do approximately 30-50x the damage of a basic paladin attack (1-2kish vs 40) I wouldn’t call that “doing squat like how a Paladin does squat”
2. Not sure what you mean about getting pips up… It’s damn near impossible to get in melee in pvp no matter what and while paladins used to have a decent ranged attack (Retribution), the cooldown is so long that it’s worthless in pvp now.

[Burnator]

I’m getting the feeling most people arguing for paladin beeing to strong are talking about it pre nerf. Probably because they haven’t fought a paladin in a while, as everyone goes scoundrel in pvp Arena.

I keep hearing things like damage reduction, instant burst, and so on. That has bin removed.

If you want to kill someone solo, it’s a 15 sec fight from start. That is full burst all hitting, then charging up 4 more orbs to finish the job. And that’s if your opponent is bad. Add a good dodging opponent and your better off trying to aoe him to death, but that’s a good 2 min fight.

Now if we talk healer, they are not really possible to kill. There heals are higher then the possible dps. Same with a other paladin.

Any mage ranger or scoundrel worth his salt can burst down a average Palladin in 5-10 seconds. Mages might have a harder time as they have to stand stil and cast making them easy targets. Rangers loose some dps in close range, so takes them a bit longer.
Scoundrels are op. They litterly just need to wait for the attack, and they can burst you down. Or they can even heal up to full after the massive 5 dot damage with a empowered heal card, and still kill you within 5 sec.

Servivability for 20 sec is pure skill.

A amusing fact is that Palladin tactics work better when using a scoundrel then a paladin. Charge in, poke your opponent with the charged gun, and spam the trigger. Keep jumping behind the opponent and shoot when charged. (Simulated hammer orbs, goes faster to charge and deals more damage)

Anyone low on health? Point and click! (Normal gun deals damage like a hammer of retribution, AND it can hit none stationary targets! +No cooldown)

Have a heal card on your belt to use wen low, it steals your enemies life! (Quite a strong heal for a dps class. I was surprised.)

Survivability is the same, a bit less mobile.

[Quick_J]

I don’t think you have played scoundrel much by your response. The heal card doesn’t heal as much as you think and is in no way close to what a paladin can heal. You also have to get lucky and draw from your deck to get it and 90% of the time the heal won’t be empowered b/c most scoundrels will use that on the flame card. I do think scoundrel and paladin need some more changes that I already mentioned to bring them in line with other classes.

[Atropos]

paladin need some more changes that I already mentioned to bring them in line with other classes

Paladins literally die to anything and everything now. How is nerfing them more going to help “bring them in line with other classes”?

[Burnator]

You know you have a belt? Its my usual storage card. Probably scoundreled about 20 battlegrounds, and im currently levling it.

I’m not saying scoundrel is a easy class, but with 100+ hoers as a paladin, I’m still 10× better with a scoundrel that probably has less then 10h playtime

Hell, I got more killed and less deaths the first battleground I ever did with it, pretending the gun was a paladin hammer, and ignoring curveshots and cards

[Quick_J]

Paladins literally die to anything and everything now. How is nerfing them more going to help “bring them in line with other classes”?

You clearly didn’t read my earlier suggestion for paladin.

Hell, I got more killed and less deaths the first battleground I ever did with it, pretending the gun was a paladin hammer, and ignoring curveshots and cards

I’m guessing you probably went against an easy team. Pretty easy to rack up kills with players sitting there. I suggested changes to scoundrel that would hopefully get rid of the body rushing and add a higher skill cap to the class.

[Burnator]

Lol, full LC group
They wreckt my paladin, scoundrel was a lot stronger

[Burnator]

You point verry much towards your own suggestions, ignoring everyone else. On top of this you freely edit your earlier comments after answers are given, making the thread hard to read and verry confusing.

didn’t read my earlier suggestion for paladin.

Maybe you should actually quote your sugestion, not just expect people to read a 150 comment thread.

[Quick_J]

Not sure what you are talking about. I haven’t edited any of my comments. I only edit to fix spelling or grammar errors.

[Atropos]

Paladins are still ridiculously OP in PvP. They have to much damage for their survivability. Their PvP damage needs to be nerfed and they should get a slight boost to their vitality and damage mitigation.

No, palladins are not op damage side. They are on the weak end

They are OP with all their tools combined not just from the damage and the only way to balance that is to nerf their damage so it doesn’t effect PvE. If you want to keep the damage, they would need to nerf the healing, reduce the aoe of the point and click to add some skill and put a higher cd on the teleport.

Paladin is one of the easiest class I have been playing. A scoundrel can empty his whole chamber and not kill me. I can build up charges wait for them to teleport and take them down to 20% in a blink of an eye. I can also easily outrun anyone to go heal. As a paladin it is pretty easy to dodge players and set this up. It does take that much skill. It takes less than 10 hours of gameplay to get good at paladin if you are a veteran player. I agree they do need more survivability but that needs to be balanced by lowering their burst damage.

You really should do some more testing. It depends if they crit with the empowered shot. If they don’t you will survive a full chamber.

If you are dodging it really shouldn’t be an issue. As a paladin you can dodge or run away and heal. At that point the scoundrel used their good cards and can easily work them down.

They are currently all the classes. Since they are a tanking class, they should be similar to a warrior with different skills. As I mentioned before there damage should be nerfed and health/ damage reduction increased.

Paladins literally die to anything and everything now. How is nerfing them more going to help “bring them in line with other classes”?

You clearly didn’t read my earlier suggestion for paladin

Not sure what you are talking about. I haven’t edited any of my comments. I only edit to fix spelling or grammar errors

So that we can all be clear on this, you are asking for:

1. Additional reduction of damage dealt by Paladins, as their burst damage is stronger than warrior hits
2. If not nerfing damage further, then nerfing healing done by Paladins, lowering aoe range, and increasing cooldown on teleport
3. Adding a “slight” damage reduction to make them slightly tankier

My rebuttal:

1. Paladins have burst damage but no ability to deal any further damage until 15s are up for their next orb gen. Their burst damage is their only attack, unlike for warriors where swings can generate wounds and also do damage on their own
2. Heal is one-time use on cd and has a small chance to keep you alive but chances are that by the time you need to use it you already have 2-3 dots on you or are being ganked. A lower AOE range will make dodgers even harder to hit for one of the whopping total of two melee classes in game. As will the paladin teleport, which, by the way, uses up 1/5 of your burst damage capability every time you use it.
3. This was just removed in the first thread of paladins being too OP. So far, devs have: lowered damage, removed DR, and dropped pip gen for paladins in pvp.

Let me know if I’m missing something.

Edit: personally, I think adding back in some DR and increasing pip gen again will help balance things. Pip gen is not burst damage, but sustained damage and will allow a paladin to have a fighting chance again without having to needle people down for 2 mins straight.

There is something to be said for increasing the time it takes to kill someone in PvP. There is also something to be said for increasing it so far that one or more classes become unable to compete because they can’t do enough damage. The latter is where we are at for paladins, “burst damage” aside.