They may have quit but they’re account still exists 
The following stats show how a few types of rotations will turn out in dps with a perfect affixless +5 wand. Where the spells fire and frost are cast every 0.5 seconds. And affliction every 0.8 seconds. (x-axis time in seconds. y-axis dps). I Included every small thing like weakness boosts active on specific spells in the rotation. Or runic diversity hitting on the third spell (doing 27% damage boost btw, not 20%. Is a lie!). Or fire next spell boost from Afinity. And reduced boost from triplicity. etc. Only 3 things are excluded and that is tilesets, mage super and boosts of other classes. (in the end I checked all the numbers myself on a dummy because no-one was to trust, even in game text xD)
normal = rotation without triplicity (frost, affliction, fire, fire, fire, fire, fire)
old trip = old most optimal rotation while making use of triplicity. Cam’s method (or close to optimal)
old nerf trip = old most optimal rotation while making use of triplicity with the new nerf in place.
new nerf trip = a better dps optimized rotation for the new nerf while still using triplicity. (keeping afflictions and weakness uptime up also in triplicity)
As you may notice before the nerf triplicity was adding about 9% dps boost to that cast speed relative to the non triplicity method. This 9% has been brought down to 0% IF you optimize the rotation around it. And will be a dps reduction if you don’t.
Okay but now comes the problem, triplicity adds more hits in between on a target which means you need other extra tilesets to trigger triplicity. Those interfere more too. So even if you optimize the triplicity with the new nerf even better you will still be lower dps then not using triplicity. Then we also ignore the fact that you make it yourself harder by having a more complex rotation and lagging everyone more out by adding 3x the spells in triplicity itself.
Then there is 1 more hidden factor which is not visible from the graphs. The non triplicity rotation has a 2 weakness uptime of 100%. The other rotations more like 70% to 90%. Which means X% of the time other all dps around you do ~5% less damage too xD
This whole problem is caused on targets without downtime. With downtime this boost should still be still around a % but that is neglectable. I would recommend the devs again to reconsider the nerf on this talent to be way less. The effect of triplicity was clearly way less then it initially looked like. I would rather want to see triplicity nerf be brought up to less of an extreme.
Remember that the max dps on itself is still higher then other classes, and their utility is still higher too. Thus the goal of this talent change for tuning of “LVL 30 dungeons and shard level increase coming out next week” was not the right call. It is hard for everyone to know how much effect a change has because alot of variables are involved. But I think it is safe to say with the amount of variables I added in that the nerf only accomplished triplicity being mostly useless or even having a negative effect on fights longer then 20 seconds.
So I hope in the near future you can consider upping the effect of triplicity again.
@Riley_D @Robert @Mathieu_D @Damage_Da_Mage
3 Likes
Reminder that the level 30 scoundrel talent adds 20%-25% damage and ranger also add a significant amount (not sure how much though) vs 0% mage.
So Scott showed with dps differences with the triplicity change
You lose dps by using triplicity. Wonderful lol.
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Certainly on non downtime enemy fights of longer then 20 seconds yes. You will lose about 0.5% of dps on average. (and more with tileset problems)
A very small boost on downtime fights depending on the downtime timing.
Less then 10 second fights I guess a minor boost.
But both those boost cases can easily be destroyed to dps loss by not having the room for enough fast triggering tilesets.
Just as the devs intended, for triplicity to be useless most of the time.
Devs wouldn’t listen when I brought up the issue of lightning totems needing to be calculating the crits upon release for the shaman changes to even matter, (even provided the numbers and reasons why it has importance) didn’t listen, doesn’t listen to the community about triplicity, now the talent is essentially useless. can’t wait until this game turns to more shit because they won’t listen.
Actually they do listen, they seem (imo) to have selective “hearing”.
Dev team: Shaman needs a rework
Community: Let shaman orbs respawn when throw
Dev team: Lets do that
Small community explaining why they should really think about lightning totem crits
gets ignored
Shaman still needs to be melee range to do full shaman dps. (Shaman’s dps is garbage past melee range, which the orb respawning is supposed to have ‘fixed’)
Dev team: I think runemage needs to be brought down a tad
Community mentions triplicity nerf
Dev team: lets do that
Part of community that goes into detail about what/how (or if) it should be done with proof of concept/math
Gets ignored
Triplicity is now useless
4 Likes
I still don’t get the Shaman thing being ignored initially ya. Might still change in a future patch. Because they did respond to it in the end.
About the mage thing, I think they just made a mistake in their math. And no-one to be honest did enough testing and theory before to actually proof they made a mistake. (maybe I still make a big mistake somewhere. But I don’t hope so, checking this out for a whole week now.)
Lets stop bitching about it though in a way of over-exaggeration and frustration that it won’t be taken serious anymore.
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There needs to be a multi page post on the metaphysics, and philosophical aspects of the class, combined with some transcendental meditation exercises for it to really get the full effect.
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Here’s the thing:
Devs expected runemages to cast without shortcuts and they’ve assumed the best runemage could cast 1.5 spells per second with normal spells. (B fireball 2s).
1.5 is close to: 13 spells in triplicity.
13 spells in triplicity is: about 40k dps with +4
Shaman’s dps with +4 typically(On average): 40k dps [good shamans pulling higher, espeically on bosses that favors them]
Ranger’s dps with enough practice with +4: 40k dps high average.
Scoundrel’s dps???
Again if the devs intended for diminishing returns to allow players to achieve slightly more damage than a lower speed counter part why not start at spell 13?
Where in the world did 5 come from???
I REALLY feel as if one of the devs got on, casted triplicity and got 5 spells and then decided thats when diminishing returns happens. I don’t think they’ve planned much at all.
3 Likes
Its really easy to see where 5 came from:
5 x 66% boost is around 336% extra damage
300% = the 3 spells of time it takes to cast up triplicity
36% is used of a 6% boost per spell extra from the start.
Every other spell lowers to their goal of an and dps boost of 8% in triplicity and 0% outside triplicity. Thus, an overal dps boost of 4% was their goal is my guess. And rewarding faster casters for an overall dps boost approaching 8% but never reaching it.
Thing is all other talent boosts and affliction also play a role which all of them lowered that 4% to -…% (and even worse with tileset)
Why each thing has a negative effect?:
- affinity fire boost: boosts more % outside triplicity because 2 side spells don’t get the boost.
- runic diversity: same as fire boost
- affliction: used for big number damage, when done in triplicity wasting triplicity time. When done outside, triplicity time 8 seconds too long to keep making max use of weakness.
- tilesets. Triplicity adds 2 extra spells hitting the target on a later timeframe, triggering other timing tiles and giving more interference tiles.
1 Like
?
having flat numbers added together makes no sense, but maybe thats how the devs did it.
Idk devs seem to have their own ideas.
Did you know that I accidently opened an arcane mount and they won’t do anything about it?
I don’t get the line there, I’ve asked multiple times asking many ways such as; recrating, deleting and giving me a chest with it, etc, but nope.
I asked them if they can at least then add indicators for the chests, no reply.
I don’t get how giving someone their +3 weapon back is okay but not an arcane mount, or accidently deleting a character but not an arcane mount. Why is the line at an arcane mount?
My guess is that they want to do something about their economy, which is also why they are adding another dram cost mount.
add that with a slap in the face triplicity change that lowers your dps typically for using triplicity…
Practicing 7-9 hours a day on runemage for about 3months, finally achieve 19 in triplicity all wasted because triplicity doesn’t matter.
Pretty good reasons to leave personally. It’s THEIR game, they can change it however they want regardless of the advice/saying of the community. They could delete whatever at their own discretion.
No thanks.
I’ve only gotten on Oct 2nd to test and show that I do about the same damage without triplicity than with triplicity and haven’t been on ever since.
If the devs realize that they fucked up and would like to at least own up to it then perhaps I will come back but there is no incentive to come back, I only played to play runemage anyways.
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So can we just talk about how a bunch of my really good orbus friends quit because of this? I mean devs what’s the point in this? It was fine before. Try fixing your game or actually adding what players want to increase your sales. Just because people call you the “first vr mmo rpg” (not sure if that’s true), doesn’t mean you get to slack off. Get your game together Riley.
Just for fun and curiosity I also tested if affliction wasn’t part of the equation. And frost neither. Just fire spam:
Comparing just spamming fire (black) to just spamming fire while having triplicity (gray) gives a dps boost of 3%. While adding afflictions (blue line) is helping a lot more.
Now the only degrading effects here are:
- fireball affinity boost inside triplicity is lower then outside triplicity
- triplicity cast up time
If we remove the problem of fireball boost having a different % effect in triplicity then outside we get:
Which made the boost from 3% to about 4.7%
Then lastly speeding up triplicity cast time (to only 2 spells of time):
This brings it up to about 8% boost relative to just fireballs. Which is after fixing a ‘bug’ and casting something faster then ppl seem to be able to. (don’t also forget that the affliction method is also boosting everyone around them too by 10% with the weaknesses, which doesn’t show in the chart)
In reality though that speed can not be brought up that much. Then secondly if you do speed up triplicity cast time and fix the fire affinity ‘bug’, you will still notice that all rotations including affliction will still not be affected to have more then a 1% boost with triplicity. And thus with tilesets still a dps reduction.
2 Likes
Nice work!
Do you have some similar numbers for Ranger, Scoundrel and Shaman too? I think it would be interesting to show them in the same graph.
I used to for ranger ya xD (now outdated). But that would be another post with more general class balancing. Which I still am gathering info on and might take a while until I have to say anything about such a thing.
@Scott
Impressive work with all the charts and parsing things out; especially the digging to show differences from listed in-game data. If this doesn’t, beyond a shadow of a doubt, show what everyone was talking about numerically, then nothing will. However, whether they choose to act on these numbers is another thing, and if the other players come back.
Though, one way or another, the people that wanted more diversity in parties are getting just that from this patch, for better or worse.
I felt negative about this before, but I think this was needed. I think the devs did the right thing and were ready for the backlash. If someone like Archive could get 70k with a +2 (I may be wrong correct me if I am), but I can only get 45k as a scoundrel with a +2, something there is wrong. Every class needs to be balanced, (or at least within 10k dps) of all of the others. I get people were upset but quitting over a balance was a little much.
Archive is way better at mage than you are at scoundrel. Literally leagues ahead. Thats why he does more damage than you. Weapon levels are pretty minor when talking about DPS potential. They do give a boost, but most of your DPS comes from skill, and he is just way more skilled than you are.
3 Likes
Well I guess that means that as soon as the next MMORPG comes to VR, everyone will be switching and Orbus will be left in the dark like it already seems to be. There are way fewer players and the quest players got really mad bc they cant compete in PvP because they have no way of seeing their attacker until they get to within a certain range. A ranger can literally sit outside of the view of a quest user and kill them while they haven’t the slightest clue as to where it is coming from.
Lets give people more reasons to quit.
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If weapon levels don’t matter so much, then why did he do so much more? He should have been a lot less than that because 45k dps for a scoundrel at +2 isn’t exactly common.