No. It should be hard but the unlucky should be able to get their hands on one.
seriously though, I still think it should be more than 8 tokens. not only do you have a chance to get a +7 every single week, but the boss isnāt exactly that difficult to kill. it simply requires coordination and groups have been killing it first try for a while now. we have to remember this is the best weapon in the game and after that, there isnt much to do.
youre able to get one, its just taking a while to get. like I said, 8 tokens doesnāt seem like much.
Iām not going to argue the number. Iām just in support of a way. Those more qualified can hash out the path.
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Iām sure a perfect +7 is like winning the lottery. Getting better stats is always a way to keep busy. Plus all of your other classes would benefit from a shinny new weapon.
itās the hardest content in the game. How many people actually have kills on Hard Mode Boss 4 compared to those who have tried the raid?
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this post isnāt about who has and hasnāt killed it. its about turning tokens in for a +7.
Sure, but saying itās not difficult when the vast majority of players canāt even get to the boss?
Come on. Be reasonable.
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For me it comes down to the fact that currently, the weapons feel kind of like overworld legendaries. I know some people who have 3, I know some people who have played just as long and have 0. For a transmog I think that is fine, and for a weapon that is an advantage in the game, I donāt. Considering both parties put in the same effort. Iāve seen plenty of people get drops on their first kill, and plenty who havenāt after their 20th.
The bottom line for me is that the drop rate is demoralizing to keep playing the game and makes the game not fun. Because you are RNG seeing others get advantages that you feel you have earned just as much and there is no end to your RNG.
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maybe it was the wrong choice of words but im serious. the boss isnāt ādifficultā, it just requires coordination. that is a perfect reason it should take more tokens to get a +7. not to mention the reason people have so much trouble getting to the boss is because this raid is very mechanic heavy and has dps checks and reborn players arenāt as used to that.
Iām on the fence about tokens to be used for a +7 in general. I am just writing out my thought process here.
I want people who actively participate and win to be rewarded but I like that it is both challenging to kill the boss and a rare drop. Using tokens to buy it cheapens the reward for me. Also, most people who already have +7 and get another drop, will generally give it away to someone who hasnāt gotten one yet and need it for their main class. This reduces their individual need to have āgood RNGā and averages out statistically in their favor, the more often they do the raid with the same people, since everyone in the party will not have consistently bad RNG as an individual player might. I think eventually, this will be just like shards, where you ask, āWhat class do you need gear for? Iāll roll for you.ā. But, its still relatively new so we are not there yet where everyone has +7s for every class.
Then again, with the current tokens, I will basically never use the Citadel HM weapon tokens. I have no use for an epic +6 weapon. Maybe this is just me, but this weapon token is useless after you get the transmogs and pretty much useless before that unless you really wanted the transmog. If thereās a chance that this could be a +7 just as there is a chance it could become āperfectā then that could be a potential solution but it doesnāt seem like it would be a end all solution.
If a policy were implemented today that 8 tokens is a guaranteed +7, I would be able to buy two more +7 weapons, totalling four +7s.
I wonder, how does that sit with people who currently have 0 and have enough tokens to buy 2? Still not fair? After a few more wins, I could get another drop and then buy another with tokens. RNG is still working in favor of some and not others. As long as RNG exists, this will always be the case.
One thing to note, is that a +7 weapon is not necessary to complete any content in the game and only offers 5% total DPS increase max. This isnāt a very large advantage either. As you can see on the Cindy board, the level of the weapon does not dictate the best numbers. When it comes to content, everyone is using +6 or below when attempting HM Citadel Boss 4 for the first time and this is the hardest content in the game so a +7 weapon is nice but not necessary by any means.
Now, I put myself in someone elses shoeās who has killed boss four for 30+ weeks and has not gotten a single +7 weapon and none in the party have given up their drop to help a player out.
Is this fair? Technically, it is fair, since we all have the same chance to have a weapon drop for us. But, this player hasnāt gotten one yet so it canāt be fair if other people are getting them. What we have here is a case of equality of opportunity but not equality of outcome. With RNG, this will always be the case.
So, the next logical question is, should we eliminate RNG and make it a token only system so that the outcome is equal and no one will ever get more drops than someone else for the same amount of kills? I think that is what the sentiment of this thread leans toward at the moment. To be truly fair, this is the only answer that I can think of. If it were this way from the beginning, it would be fine because we would know what we are working toward instead of hoping for a lottery. The value of the weapon would have always been placed at the value of x number of wins of Boss 4.
tldr
If the community is unhappy with the RNG nature of the +7 weapon drop system, maybe it should be eliminated and replaced with a token only system. RNG is technically fair since we all have the same chance, but will always have unfair outcome for people who have bad luck. A token only system ensures everyone receives the same reward and is the only way to ensure equal outcome.
I disagree with this thread being favoured to āit should be eliminated and replaced with a token only systemā.
I think most people here asking for ātokens = weaponā are fine with keeping the RNG but I canāt speak for everyone.
my issue is these two facts:
we have tokens to guarantee loot on raids after not getting it through RNG
The current token for boss 4 gives +6 normal weapons, that is not the loot people kill the boss for
Comparing to HM guild city when that was the best gear ( Iām trying to remember this so correct me if im wrong ) Boss 5 would drop +5 legendary off RNG. the pity system traded 8 tokens to give you +5 normal. The only way to get a +5 was the raid.
this seems like a good balance of reason to do the raid for the legendary but a reward for the unlucky that have RNG against them.
So why do we have a pity system for boss 4 the way it is?
I want to say more but for the sake of keeping it civil I will leave it at thatā¦ p.s. if anyone would like to take some punches to the face or body from me to relieve my anger that could help
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If your argument is true, then why have the system of RNG and tokens in place for other content?
Someone said earlier in this thread that the tokens dropped in boss 4 give a +6 wepon and that most players already have a +6 going into boss 4. I donāt see the big deal changing the token drop to a +7. It is the end of the game and you beat it. At some point you have to āgive the man a boneā. Making it a luck drop is just mean spirited.
Iām not making any argument. Iām only asking questions and discussing ideas. The idea suggested for replacing the rng aspect with tokens only is my idea since it is the only truly fair way. To me it doesnāt seem like such a bad thought. I didnāt mean to imply that anyone was saying this is what they wanted but a question. When I said that I thought the sentiment was similar to this, Iām trying to find a middle between two sides and thought that fairness was the main motivator. I could be completely wrong. I certainly didnt mean to upset anyone or make anyone feel the urge to be uncivil. Clearly, this is a much more sensitive topic than I realized.
I wasnāt around when +5 was the best weapon so I donāt have that reference point. If I understand what youāre saying then the hard mode should give a +7 normal/epic weapon for tokens. Since guild city used to give the the same level weapon but normal. I think that sounds fair but Iām mostly neutral on this issue.
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I think what Iām suggesting is that tokens drop a +7 non-legendary weapon. RNG would drop the Legendary.
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i dont mind the rng system so long as people are actually guaranteed at least one drop for their main class. getting a drop on your first run in fun, not getting one after 2 months isnāt. every other big mmo has a token system for eventual BiS, why not us?
Also, i donāt understand the ā+7 isnāt necessary ā argument. What other reason is there to doing the boss other than +7s? The pet is cool but most people are in it for the weapon. If its only a 5% increase then why do people log on every week to suffer through server lag and desyncs for an hour? Its because half of what makes an MMO an MMO is getting better gear for your character.
One last thing, this wouldnāt be as much of an issue if the raid didnāt have weekly lockout. Im not asking that the lockout be removed, but people saying that 8 tokens isnāt enough need to realize that 8 tokens is 2 months. If it was 12 tokens it would be a quarter of a year 
. Imo, thats wayy too much time just to get a weapon. If somebody started clearing citadel right now as iām making this post, theres a good chance that they wouldnāt be able to get a +7 by the time chaos dungeons release if it was a 12 week requirement.
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