Frostbolt and Firebolt level 3 practically useless?


#1

After this recent frostbolt level 3 nerf and firebolt level 3 always being pretty subpar, I can’t see any reason to use these higher level spells compared to the level 2 version. Why use a level 3 version when I can cast 3-5 level 2 spells in the time it takes to cast one level 3. Level 3 firebolt has never been very useful, but at least level 3 was useful before the patch because of the slow, but now being only 15% more slowing than level 2 and almost half the range I can’t see a point. Not sure why the devs would want to make the level 3 spells even more pointless. Why not give them other effects that the level 2 versions dont have so people have a reason to use level 2 and 3?


#2

It’s difficult to know where the right answer is on this. Totally get where you’re coming from on one hand - as a warrior “main” casting 3d spells is very tricky. Then again, I have watched @Elk pump out L3 frostbolts in rapid succession, consistently. Til there is more available data and vids, it may be that the value of L3 spells is intangible until one hits a high level of play. Again, only a L6 mage but these are my thoughts.


#3

As a mage with around 100 hours I don’t think it is any better, probably worse because now people can spam level 2 frostbolt like a machine gun making level 3 even sillier an option.


#4

We may end up adding back in an additional effect on Frostbolt 3 to make it more worthwhile, right now it’s the extra slow combined with the extra duration of the slow effect.

But 75% slow was just too much from a game balance standpoint, so that’s why we had to re-work them.


#5

Anything expected to happen for t3 Fireball?


#6

Things are in the works!


#7

See my other thread on this… Just the same range as frostbolt 2 with a bit more duration stack would be great for frostbolt 3.

I concur with the poster on T3 fireball… and am excited that things are in the works. I dont waste time on T3 fireball ever…


#8

I’d like to see something like a DoT added to lvl 3 fireball. if you can properly weave in a lvl 3 skill to keep a DoT burning to increase DPS slightly over just spamming other spells it would be worth it. and have the skill required to do it effectively.


#9

I have heard that idea proposed before and I like it, but it makes me worried that it would make affliction and greater affliction pointless or at least less likely to be used and I don’t want to decrease the reasons to cast spells, we already see too much of the same spells being spamming. They would have to buff affliction or do something to distinguish it and make it worth while to cast both of them. Can’t wait to see what the devs have planned.


#10

I feel balancing the spells will be difficult and will take time. Frost 3 definitely feels lackluster now, and fireball 3 has no practical purpose. This game is very new though, so just needs some time to balance things. maybe affliction will end up causing other spells to do more damage or something ( magic shred). A DOT on fireball would make a lot of sense though. IMO it would be nice to stack the spells and make it rewarding to be able to use all spells well.


#11

I would like to see t3 fireball do a small aoe upon impact.


#12

Any update on this?

In the meantime it seems possible to spam Frost 3 but I guess that will not happen for Fire 3.
I can cast fire 3 but only as starting spell and the really short range of the level 3 spells makes them useless as starting spells too because you have to go very close to the mob so that immediately after the first spell you´re already in “panic mode” as an beginner mage at least!

I don´t feel that the level 3 spells are so much stronger to justify this short range too! Am I wrong?


#13

Being a big Frost 3 user, I can tell you that the level 3 Frost is roughly 80% stronger than the level 2 spell and with the 50% slow that it is highly effective if you can cast it on demand.
As you become stronger in game and gain certain attributes through gear, you can gain an increase in spell speed which makes spells travel much farther than the default.

At most, Fire 3 can be spammed at a rate which allows 2 in flight at one time. With the challenge of getting it all drawn mid battle and maintaining forward direction of spells already heading towards their target, fire 3 is not ideal. That being said, with an affix like First Strike, you can do significant damage initially using this spell. Definitely a more situational spell in my opinion due to the need for enemies to be frosted for the ice lance combo.


#14

Even though I’m not a mage, but I’ve been running tradu mines constantly, and in a way, you are right, L3 spells are not that great most of the time… BUT for some bosses you need to use them, especially frost 3 to make it possible for the warriors to kite the enemy around without getting hit :wink:


#15

@Decoy Dude, for the record I think you’re pretty awesome, but for every person that can chain cast that spell the way you can, I can find 30 that can’t even get it to go off. So at the top of the skill delta, you’re completely right about it. At the average of the skill delta, it’s a gamble at best. Firebolt 3 is exacerbated by being even less utilitarian for the almost double draw time. It’s an ugly design quandary. If they make it awesome, a guy like Decoy can obliterate with it. If it’s “balanced” relative to the other spells it’ll sit idle in all but the top 5% of players because they can’t get it to cast reliably enough to justify a 50% increase vs just casting 3 Rank 2’s in the same time period. And that’s discounting the slower projectile and lower range. My personal opinion is it’s less an issue of the relative power of rank 2 vs rank 3 spells and more an issue of how absurdly more difficult some of the runes are to execute. I can Cast Firebolt 3 all day, poly, stack two Affliction 2’s the hard way, and if I get a frost 3 to go off it’s a christmas miracle.


#16

That´s a very good point imho!

When I was practicing mage a bit (I´m main warrior) I could cast Frost 3…but not in the “spam-variant” with the P like decoy does. That one also never worked for me although it looks easy in his vid :smiley:

Top 5% leads me to a question:
@Decoy is there a level from which on being able to chain cast spells is a must? I can imagine that it is possible to hit a big boss or something with that but can you also chain cast on a warg or a bandit?
Would really be cool to see how you use your spells in a battle or daily use!! :innocent::pray:


#17

One of the best spots for chain casting frost 3 is actually on Sanyael (worm world boss) being able to slow each individual add to 50% gives the dps more time before the adds go underground as well as does the frost debuff which enables other mages to focus on casting Ice lance.
It is one that takes lots of practice to cast it as efficiently as I do but I’ve seen many people who couldn’t do it until after they were already level 20 that found their focal points and can cast it very well. If you’ve got down time, pull out your wand and practice casting. Waiting for a friend, practice time. Waiting to find a group, practice time.

Chain casting on small targets like a warg is kind of a moot point due to the ice lance combo unless you pull multiple mobs and are kiting 2 of them. I’m not very good at casting polymorph on the fly so my solution is to kill the enemy before it can get to me or before it’s hit animation goes off. The only thing that can manage to get shots in will usually be an elite and that’s if I’m being lazy and just standing still. This being said, when using the ice lance there is the delay while the animation fades before you can cast your next spell. During this time you can take a few steps back before beginning to draw the next one to maximize distance traveled for the frosted enemy and time allowed for you to get off your next spell.

Recently upgrade my internet connection and I am capable of live streaming, I’m not very entertaining by myself but you can see how I cast and I’ll try to post it on the unofficial discord when I go live for those curious.


#18

Yeah, I’ve actually had you work with me personally on it, and watched the youtube video you’ve put up. It’s the only spell I practice in downtime. I literally don’t have any more game time to spend on it in addition to what I already do. Can’t cast the damn thing. And I totally understand the sentiment that “with practice it’ll get easier” as that’s how I got the other spells to where they are. It’s still monstrous hours of practicing for a nominal increase in effectiveness. (edit: for the record, I’m not at all upset or aggrieved about this issue, I’m just posting it to make my position clear)


#19

What’s your in game name? I’ll keep working with you when I’m online if you’re available


#20

I believe the devs mentioned they would be addressing this with the talent system.