Have you considered an open skill tree?

The RPG trope of locking abilities to classes always felt a very limiting. VR is about immersion and if you can’t pick up a bow because you’re a mage then that would break immersion. I know that’s how you change classes in this but then you change level and active skills as well. Have you considered doing an open skill tree for characters. If you want to specialise you still can but if you want to learn a spell of healing/slow/fireball but still use a bow and arrow then you would have the ability. If you limit item/spell use by a level and stats requirement then you open the game to a much larger form of personal customisation.

Hey Robert, sounds to me like maybe you haven’t played the game. (There isn’t a situation where you can’t pick up a bow because you are a mage) I think you should try the game out this weekend for free and see how it feels.

And I see what you are saying about your active skills changing but how are you going to cast a spell with bow/arrow instead of a wand? I’m thinking about the scenarios where you would try to cast spells in one hand while having a sword or musket in the other and it seems like it probably wouldn’t work haha

You’re absolutely right I haven’t played it, I’m looking forward to getting into the beta. I have watched some videos though. My understanding is that if you pick up a bow you become an archer and if you pick up a wand you become a mage.

Regarding how, you could just holster the bow or not pull an arrow from your quiver and cast spells with the free hand. Think Vanishing Realms, You can carry a bow and a sword and shield in that., You have to holster them to use potions and other items. VR isn’t like traditional RPG games where the assumption is that the avatar did some balancing shenanigans with his sword to drink that potion. In VR you’re the one doing it and that’s the appeal. That would also add an extra element of strategy, “do I put my shield on my back and lower my defences so I can cast heal, or do I hold out and hope I can parry”. I’m thinking long term but the skill system is a core element of all RPGs.

I could be completely off base here since I haven’t played the game and if so then feel free to ignore me. Regardless, thank you for interacting with the community.

Haha I am not a dev, definitely only a part of the community same as you!

And I think you make a good point about the physical interaction with your items in the game, which the devs have adopted in the way you use skills for all classes. The musketeer and archer specifically you grab the special arrow or orb you want to use. I think if there was just a place you grabbed to equip different weapons with all the things you currently also have equipped in game it would be really clunky and you’d probably grab a lot of stuff on accident. (People don’t like grabbing things by accident haha there were plenty of complaints here when items were a little too close to one another on the belt)

I’m sure there would be some way to do it well though and it is a great idea!

I’d also like to put my 2c in. The team behind the game is small and I think having a system as intricate as that would be hard to balance and ruin the ‘holy trinity’. As a warrior your shield arm has the hand free to grab potions and your warhorn, but casting spells as a mage is hard enough. As a melee fighter it would probably lower your effectiveness overall. More classes will be introduced post-launch to maybe have some unique hybrid-esque classes but a full multi-class tree is highly unlikely.

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This would be fixed with an assigned number of slots. Not an infinite all you can carry scenario. Plus putting stuff in and out of your bag would be a physical action to expand what you can carry.

For an RPG the Holy Trinity might be enough. However if it’s going to be an MMO, a game with long play and persistent characters. Having more customisation is the way I would go. It would allow you to difference yourself from other players. Maybe be a Battle Mage who has skilled up enough to wear heavy armour and combat spells but because of the division of points you aren’t as powerful as either specialists but you are more adaptable. The more you delve into VR the less restrictions make sense.

There is a line you have to draw somewhere. I don’t know if you’ve thought about all the reasons some restrictions exist.

There is a really high skill ceiling for everything in the game so you can already distance yourself from other players with your skill and time spent mastering the game. I think you’ll enjoy the runemage.

[Updated to correct a brain fart and missing word]

See that I don’t agree with that, the restrictions don’t exist for a RPG reason. I’ve looked into this and played enough RPGs to consider it in some depth. It’s originally in place for replay-ability. It gives the player something new to try. You could argue that there is a balancing aspect that ensures they get powerful enough to complete the game but that can be done with an open system. You still have to go down skill trees to learn advanced abilities (prerequisites etc). I’m not saying it’s necessarily right for this game, I’m just saying that once you get to VR the usual “You can’t use that because you’re not the right class” system response is no longer acceptable. It breaks immersion.

Sorry I wasn’t clear when mentioning restrictions I think were talking about different things. By the way I’m understanding your logic though anything that isn’t done exactly like real life is immersion breaking.

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I think we will be getting this customization to some degree, though it might not look exactly the way you want it to. We don’t know what runesmithing/artificing will look like in its final implementation, but the general idea is to allow players to tune their characters to fit certain play styles. So to your Battlemage example, I think it’s possible that you’ll be able to apply +Physical Defense runes to all your runemage equipment and create a tankier runemage – at the expense of all those damage-buffing runes you could have applied instead to make a punchier glass cannon. Similar opportunities will exist for all the classes.

That’s not the same as being able to wield a bow & arrow while simultaneously casting a spell, but I want to highlight the customization that will be available in case anyone reading isn’t already familiar with it.