Idea on mage spell drawing mechanics

#1

One issue that happens in pvp and pve is that the i am forced by the game mechanics to stand still to draw…

Would it be possible to make spells translation option for local to the player body instead of world? That way I can draw and move.

  • should not rotate with player
  • should be based on local x,y,z transformation of player.
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#2

I feel like this is a very necessary improvement as well.

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#3

I feel as if this would make level 3 spells much more difficult to draw, moving around helps draw those spells well

Also learning to draw runes in the first place is helped by being able to walk around your spell, you can see where you are going around, especially with the z axis, being able to see your mistakes from all angles clearly helps improve and fix errors. The largest problem i see with new players learning spells is their z axis drawing, which is bound to happen in a 3D space

This would also be a hard buff to the mage, I feel as if mechanics requiring moving particularly in boss fights help maintain the DPS of the mage. It also provides the class with some depth, having to plan for and be ready to move, trying to ensure you can draw a spells soon enough to keep dps up and move enough to stay alive, it’s more to think about keeping peoples attention on the game

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#4

I feel ya. I think thats why it should be an optional setting not a pure change to mage mechanics. Could be an interesting experiment atleast if Riley is up for it.

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#5

Could maybe replace static shock as the other level 5 talent?

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#6

To be clear, this should be based on the room position, not the player head position. That way you can still adjust yourself physically and walk around your drawing without changing anything. Mages move relative to their drawings when casting, after all.

It wouldn’t be a hard buff in a PVE sense at all. In PVE, movement required to fight is in big steps and in regular intervals. Sliding away from a bolt is harder than just taking a quick teleport to the side. For mages who don’t spend longer than a second or two on just the drawing portion of casting, teleporting once to the side has a negligible effect on DPS. This is much more of a QoL change than anything else.

All other ranged classes can move while attacking optimally, except for the shaman (which by design of placing interactable objects in the world is a position based class). Rangers can slide and shoot, scoundrels and musketeers can slide and click the trigger/grab things, bards can bongo. There’s no reason that mage shouldn’t be able to slide and cast, just like there’s no reason for drawings to have to be fixed to a position in the world.

In terms of PVP, this will just make mage able to dodge a little better (like every other ranged class…).

It shouldn’t be a talent, though. You shouldn’t have to choose between one QoL change (lend a hand) and another just becasue they both get chosen to be the same talent level.

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#7

I highly disagree with you Phillip and highly agree with J. You see I learned the spells but never hard to walk around my spell or anything like that. I think people will learn just as easy as they do now, especially with us older players help. This is definitely needed as the mobs move so fast and the game itself requires us to move a lot more. I imagine it will take some getting used to from most of us older players and the new players will just be learning as they would either way. This wouldn’t make the class OP in any way, all the other classes can attack while moving so why limit the mage. It makes no sense to leave the class the way it is. The idea “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” is the dumbest and most ignorant outlook. Everything can be improved and this is a simple and necessary improvement to help balance the mage with other classes.

#8

Because the mage can output more damage when they are decent already.

Beyond that, this introduces other issues, you would have to stand still in a room or if tracking is done from the headset hold your head still to draw, otherwise your drawing would move but your hand wouldn’t, that feels like inconvenience? (Head position determines body position after all)
Cams idea of it being room based instead of player based sounds better

However I still think this works well as part of the class, there’s positives and negatives to having to play a class, this is something the runemage has to deal with that most other classes are affected by much less (with the exception of the shaman who has it worse, but has the talent choice to teleport to their totems to help assist)

And i didn’t say you couldn’t learn the spells without walking around them, but it does help speed up the process, and if you suddenly can’t cast something it also helps to do it occasionally to check whats going wrong. I notice when i get tired i tend to slip a fair bit on the z axis and on any sharp corners.

Another alternative idea could be if you have multiple runes drawn in the air, more than 2m from each other, maybe the system only attempts to try and recognize the one closest to you? That way if you have to teleport away, you don’t have to waste time trying to remove an incomplete spell.

#9

After analyzing a bunch of logs that were uploaded to the publicly viewable combat log parser (taking in consideration of every individuals gear), in the PvE world I can actually see that rangers on average are able to output more dps than runemages if played correctly. Also if played correctly, Scoundrels can out dps runemages… And we are talking well practiced runemages with 1000+ hours of play time and 1 year of muscle memory build up… So I would have to disagree with you on this one unfortunately.

I think the point here is that… Runemage base mechanics have not been touched for a year (or there abouts) and it is time to think about ways to continuously and iteratively improve on the mechanics here and bring them up to speed with other classes once more. I know it was (sorry if this is not true Riley) Riley’s original USP for Orbus and had a lot of attention on original game release… But it would be nice to consider how it can be brought up to pace with other classes once again… Small QoL changes like this over a longer time period, makes this easier.

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#10

That sounds like what is actually already happening xD triplicity + spell casting faster release times + the new double press insta release are already small QoL improvements of the class.

1 Like
#11

Aye… Although I would argue triplicity isnt a QoL improvement… and the mage ultimate is still weak as hell in comparison to the ranger ultimate and I am guessing the Scoundrel ultimate.

I want to requote something that I wrote on the media section of our discord earlier…

Right now (based on talking to people really not statistically significant) most US east coast players have a ping between 20-50ms to Riley’s server where as EU players are experiencing 100+ms (100 if you are lucky) ping to the east coast servers. (tested by asking people to ping the orbus IP using cmd prompt)…

This by itself, based on the current game mechanics means that we are left with a deficit in casting speed in the EU… My suggested solution was the following:

do post cast calculation on damage taken… verify client side then re-verify server side… negate the health pool change if the verification fails (in the case that the client is cheating) and everyone wins.

but maybe I am talking crack… But it doesn’t seem that way.

#12

Scoundrel Ultimate is the worse in the game. :unamused: if you using it in the wrong situation it even reduces DPS. It is only an auto aim to closest target for a few seconds. (So not always desired target) and decent Scoundrels don’t miss anyway :expressionless:

Okay now done with that rant I agree on what you say on the client first server later check J. And I also mentoined this before in the old Orbus :sweat_smile:

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#13

Most of the time I think things get lost in translation or forgotten as so much goes through this forum.

#14

i still get the feeling we mages get punished tbh if you compare us to other classes, especially on damage based wich is as we mages need to almost robot cast to have good dps whilst other classes just go lazy mode and do 30k with greens this really demotivates me to still play mage tbh.
idk how you guys think about it but i know for a fact that other mages feel the same way i do .

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#15

I actually think we just haven’t convinced them (the devs) yet either if something like that is nessecary. Or it is not too complicated to make. Which comes down to not too much time spend for too little reward. Or they just disagree but just disagreeing has no use in a response. That will just become an argument battle.

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#16

Yep. Also to add to this we are also clothes and super squishy. Those other classes are leather. We are supposed to be super squishy as a way to balance out the increased dps.

#17

Yeah thats what I also keep saying, I’m getting tired of playing mage, because of that fact that I also could be lazy and just pewpew trigger press instead of kinda drawing like a robot

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#18

I already addressed the whole client-side check thing in a reply to a previous post, and nothing about that answer has changed, other than we have now implemented the auto-cast feature, which should even further reduce latency dependence when casting.

The lack of movement while a Runemage was a core design decision of the class, similar to how mages in other games often have long cast times in order to cast powerful spells. Obviously many mages have gotten to the point where movement isn’t as much of a hindrance thanks to practice and spell shortcuts, which is fine, but I don’t anticipate us changing that core part of the class anytime soon.

Regarding the relative DPS of the Scoundrel, Ranger, and Mage, if you’d like to PM me or email me the data you have I’ll be more than happy to take a look at it. That said, I anticipate that various classes perform well depending on the mechanics of the fight you are talking about, and that as we get into Raid content which will have a lot more complication to the fights, there isn’t going to be one DPS class that is better than the others in all situations. So I’m not sure if this data is aggregated across all fight types, or just practice dummies, or what, but that’s something to consider.

I do still think the Mage is the most advanced/hard to learn class, and the balance should reflect that, but at the same time I think it’s pretty unfair to characterize good Scoundrel play as just “point and shoot” – obviously between the curved bullets mechanic and the card management there is a lot going on to play it at the highest level. I am talking PvE here not PvP of course, and it may be that the Scoundrel damage is too high in both cases, but a lot of that probably has to do with people learning to play the class at a very high level which wouldn’t have started happening until about now, so we’ll take all of that into consideration when we look at balancing things again, which as I’ve said will likely be post-Quest launch as we approach the Raid beta.

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#19

In my opinion this is not a required change. Movement during combat rarely changes the amount of DPS output that a mage is able to do. The class is mean’t to be hard, so being able to move during combat as easily as other classes (it is already very easy) just is not necessary. I see people responding and saying things like “if all the other classes are able to move and still do damage, then why shouldn’t the mage be able to to the same?” Mages aren’t able to do this because we do so much damage. The price we pay for this high damage output is low mobility, health, and defense.

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#20

this is exactly what i mean,
people spended over hundreds to thousands of hours perfectioning mage play and are capable of playing it at very high levels. but still if you mage the hardest class in the game to learn make it rewarding and do not punish them wich a lot of OG orbus mages feel like atm.

to you give a small example, a shaman on static target has to do nothing except to wait for some orbs to push out 30k dps while a mage has to robot cast to get on the same level , probs the same with a scoundrell once you get your curve right on a static keep it up pull cards and go.

pvp wise mage is nerfed hard to, 2x affliction on a target hit him with a fireball and he still runs around like nothing happend and still has the chance to kill you running from across the map.

i will provide you with some numbers i think i got a lot of people who will help and try working on that just to proof our point what we are trying to say.

for the rest you did a amazing job so far with the small updates to mages, thank you for that.

just lets keep the hardest class in the game alive amongst all the og mages :smiley:

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