you can see the range on your bow after you hit a target
“When designing this system, we went through several iterations, some with more “small choices”, more akin to a talent tree, but in the end what we found is that just led to a lot of “throwaway” or “obvious” selections. Instead, we have decided to hone in on a system where you are presented with 4 tiers of high-impact choices that really change how you play the game.”
The Runemage’s two paths are Elementalist, which focuses on single-target damage, and Tormentor, which focuses on multi-target damage.
Improved Fireworks: Your next Fireworks spell takes on the color of the Frost, Fire, or Pushback spell cast before it.
Improved Light: Your next Light spell takes on the color of the Frost, Fire, or Pushback spell cast before it.
Cosmetic effects in the talent tree? This is a no and exactly something that would fit into items like J-for-Jester. Or, alterations of the spell fireworks and light. There is a giant open area in the center of fireworks, why not just add firework variants that add a symbol inside the center of the fireworks spell? Like a F for an icy fireworks in the middle, or M. Etc… Additionally, other classes don’t get a useless talent so far, at least in the previews.
Lend a Hand: Your spells now follow the direction of your off-hand rather than your wand tip.
This is an interesting talent, but is 90% of the time going to be useless especially to an advanced mage. Only 3D spells really have heavy effects on where they travel. Also, if you are forced to take this talent to unlock the later abilities but don’t want it… well that sucks too. Hard to say if I’d use this talent without testing it first, but I have no issue keeping spells like Frost 3 from hitting my targets while casting the next spell or even another Frost 3. Really, only casting Fireball 3 or Pushback 2(which isn’t practical currently at all) would be effected by this talent. Lastly, if you decide that mages will get offhand items(books, orbs, other types of things), this talent >could< get in the way of that of those offhand items. For example, if you need to point your offhand at something your spell isn’t traveling towards. Mage offhands don’t exist though, so it’s just a small point as to how this talent could influence future development.
okay an 8% dmg boost is good (actually less than 8% total dps increase unless it can refresh by landing another 3 spells or a 4th,5th,6th spell which technically are consecutive).
Potentially really good, no details.
Literally the same re-worked talent as Selfish Streak but applied to the group. It’s a very good talent, but it definitely blurs with Selfish Streak (obviously intended by the name, but why do it?). Most of the time groups will just single target dps anyways.
Is this an AOE? Sounds cool though, a lot like an weaker ultimate. Depending how long it takes to build up, this could be a useful component to AOEing down mobs.
True Affliction: Your Fire and Frost spells gain an additional damage over time effect. Your Arcane Missile spell now spreads your DoT effects to all targets it hits.
This is insanely good for both single target & AoE. It sounds like a top tier talent for sure.
It’s also unclear if you can spread other people’s True Affliction Dot’s, even with this snippet:
Note that this only works for your Fireball, Frostbolt, and Affliction DoTs, not other DoTs such as Poison. “your” makes the above sentence ambiguous since poison is mentioned as mages don’t have it.
On Dots in general, a target can currently only have 2 afflictions on it from multiple sources. The expected behavior from everyone I’ve met is that each player should be able to have their own single dot on a mob. So if 30 mages cast affliction, there would be 30 afflictions. I have no idea what will happen when multiple mages use True Affliction, any feedback for that?
Classes like the Ranger look well thought out (slow shot — so very much needed vs fast shot - the arm-tiring meta). Tanky warrior vs bleeds & increased dmg. Musketeer “DPS” talent tree is iffier(better for solo play at least), the healing one seems like it is strong and depending how strong it may need tweaking.
To conclude for runemages,
Ele: Elemental Affinity (unknown buff/debuff) and 8% dps increase.
Tormentor: Single Target dmg-boosting Dots that can be spread to nearby targets using arcane missile, 4% dps increase to the group. a 2nd sub-ult ability which may/may not be AOE. May/may not be able to spread dots of nearby allies, if they also are Tormentors. If you can - this is really really powerful? If you can’t - how will you easily know which dots are yours?
Will have more feedback once the stuff is in the beta. It would be great to actually see what the talent tree looks like in-game, so I will not speculate on how it’s set up.
Really looking forward to the talent trees! Just offering sincere feedback. I’ll offer more positive feedback when I get to play it haha, True Affliction looks pretty cool. Elemental Affinity has no real details so it’s hard to say.
(Can’t answer any responses until later tonight)
Omg omg pleeeease change nothing, great preview, I already know exactly which path I want to choose on both of these classes (musk/mage), and it’s gonna be awesome !
Much better Ranger Talents!
Arrow Sight: The trails of your arrows last much longer than usual, and shots from long distances gain a 20% base damage boost.
- I don’t think the trails are going to help with aiming, although it’s neat nonetheless.
- Is the trail client side?
Multishot: Every time you fire an arrow, you have a chance to fire an additional empowered arrow.
- Curious to what empowered is meant to mean here?
- Can you let us know what the percentage is going to be at live? Obviously it’s subject to change.
Overcharge: When you do a Charged Shot, gain an additional damage boost for each Shot Globe currently filled, using up the globes in the process.
- Can you let us know what the additional damage boost is going to be at live?
I love the idea of cosmetic changes available for spell items as seen in tier 1…just maybe not as a tier. Maybe all the classes can get their own cosmetic tier with different options to play with?
I like seeing functionality added to offhand for mage. More options for that! Maybe a few spells that can only be activated with hand movement? Maybe buffs or debuffs or other non-damaging skills so you can’t have a dual casting god of death running around. I mean, the idea appeals to me but balance and all that Jazz.
So just popping in, don’t have time right now to respond point-by-point, but two things in general that I’m seeing:
Regarding the first Mage tier, the Mage still has the exact same “budget” as the other classes in terms of power increase given by talents. So if you’re looking at that and thinking “this means the Mage is getting screwed in terms of power”, then that’s incorrect. It just means more of the actual damage boosting is in the other talents. We thought it would be a fun nod to the more “playful” side of the Mage to include those. That said, we can certainly consider making a change there; but yeah, that was the thinking.
Regarding all the requests for specifics on numbers, actual percents, etc., as I said in the first post, if we left it out, we did it on purpose, because a) we’re not committed to a number there yet, and b) our focus of feedback right now is not on balancing the talents against each other. We will reveal much more information on that as we get closer to the actual release. That said, keep in mind we’ll likely be doing major balancing on those points even after the talents are released and we see how they are used in practice, as we always do.
You could move the “fun” cosmetic thing to the top tier. Toss in a capstone of no longer requiring a reagent for resurrection (in both choices). Not that the reagent is a big deal, but just a little something that isn’t purely cosmetic.
I’d suggest removal of the reagent for teleport being an option, but until / unless trolling someone by dropping a portal on their head is addressed, you don’t need to incentivize this.
For those asking about exact numbers, the plan is definitely to display the numbers at launch in the descriptions, we’re just changing them pretty often right now during balancing.
Was wondering if the new musketeer Resurrection will consume a reagent so I know if I should start saving them or keep selling them to Mages that need them @Mathieu_D
Daaarn I was so hyped about the old Arrow Sight of the ranger… I really wanted to see in advance the trajectory of the arrow
But all the new talents do look great.
I really like the new talents for both the mage and musketeer (I play both) The mages lend a hand is actually something I would love to pick up as the increase in dps might even outdo static charge if I can cast and guide at the same time definitely the talent for me. While the tier 1 talents for mage felt lackluster at first the rest of the talents seem extremely strong compared to many of the others so I am content with the additional cosmetic option. True affliction (WOW) its a good talent and excellent in design, Elemental affinity seemed lackluster but depending on the number this could really for its own style as much as true affliction, if in a more passive way. The selfish streak and shared streak are a nice touch but because of speed limits I feel like fireball 3 is going to fall behind even more, will there be any changes to that in with the talnet system?
TLDR I think the mage talents build very well on the utility role of the mage making it different from the ranger which is more single target dmg focus. (Also lvl 5 mages might be bummed out because they will not see an increase in power until the lvl 10 talent which might be a turnoff, but I doubt that many people stay that low level for a long time)
Does the new turret interact with decurse orb at all? I know the current status for sanyael requires you to detonate a decurse orb so losing that could be a real problem.
I also think tier 1 of Runemage would feel better if attached to items like the jester orb. Perhaps in a challenging class quest line. Where it would help to showcase one mastering a class. Something hard to work on where 10-20% would achieve.
My thought on what to replace it with.
Single target tier: Icelance bonus damage if it only strikes a single target.
Icelance consumes the slow debuff for added damage
Multi target tier: Change fireball 3 to a lightning ball that arcs and does 25% damage to any nearby npc of the target.
Loving the rest of the talents. Well done with all the work you devs have put in. You are all exceptional! Adding dyes to discover was an especially fun time in the game.
I hate to be “that guy” but the mage trees seem absolutely terrible to me. Improved fireworks and light are just complete wastes even being there on the tree. The same goes for Lend a Hand, imo, which also might effect the mage tourney in a negative manner and force everyone to use it since it takes out all skill and risk/reward in your precasting that you need to pull off to get a high score.
Lend a Hand will just a bad crutch to most mages since playing without it allows you to keep your spells on target while moving, which you have to do in a lot of fights. Right now with Lend a Hand, you’re rooted in your spot until your spells hit the target. If you have to move and dodge out of an AOE, or whatever circumstance, like in many boss fights, then all your spells are immediately flung to the side. Without lend a hand I can move where ever I need while still guiding my spells in with my casting hand. Unless you give mages the option to move with their casting hand, it will just be a bad crutch for mages who can’t hit targets while drawing the next spell(which everyone can with enough practice-- even you, self-doubting new mage who is reading this).
And splitting the trees into single-target damage and multi-target damage is completely disappointing. There’s not a single reason right now to ever spec into multi-target damage, unless you want to be pulling way less weight on boss fights than the single-target damage mages. The only thing AOE is useful for right now is having a little bit of fun on some of the trash mobs. There’s one boss fight right now where you could maybe argue for it, but there’s better strats already out there.
And then on top of all of that, the way our elemental affinity works is pretty disappointing, too. From looking at things now, I have very, very little hope that any of this will even touch the effectiveness of a Frost and 4 Ice Lances. You could maybe throw a fireball between each lance to get that power buff, but in the process of that you’ll be losing out on two ice lance casts. And there’s no way the fire buff is strong enough to make up for 2 ice lance casts.
The fire buff will buff out distance ice-fire spam be a little beefier, which will be nice. But we don’t know how much the fire buff will affect things. Though that’s just reinforcing how things are rather than giving mages interesting ways to diversify and change how they play. And if the fire-frost spam is better than the traditional frost and 4 lances, then that just changes our preferred spam rather than making things more interesting.
And to make things even worse, if mages in a party try to take advantage of the frost/affliction affinity they’ll be constantly overwriting each other’s affliction stacks since there can only be 2 stacks on any one target at any time, and it’s 2 stack limit per mob, not per mage. So really only one mage in the group can take advantage of that affinity, or two guys can agree to ever only cast one affliction at a time. If it’s a future 10-man group then the rest of the mages can just forget about even thinking about using affliction. Though I do enjoy how affliction weakens magic defense and gives mages a reason to keep the stacks going.
And then even if you’re a single mage trying to take advantage of all the affinities and get an interesting rotation going, you’ll end up taking the time to cast something like this-- frost, affliction, frost, affliction, then another frost to refresh the duration for your ice lance phase, then fire, lance, fire, lance, and then you start it all over again. That is very likely not going to come anywhere near beating the DPS of a frost and 4 ice lances with just refreshing normal afflictions when you see them fall off.
And even if it does beat the spam DPS, only one mage gets to have this rotation because of how affliction stacks work, or two mages get a slightly pared down rotation-- still leaves issues for bring a 3rd mage along or issues when 10-mans come out.
I hate to have to be so negative about the new trees, but I just see so little actual good in there. Right now it’s just basically an 8% damage buff and a lot of bother that won’t be worth it because it won’t beat the DPS of how things already work.
This is just my opinions of how everything looks right now, and I’d LOVE to be wrong about it. And I’d love to see it it evolve into an interesting and deep enough mechanic that mages can actually get some interesting rotations going and have some choice in play style.
I think the crutch of lend a hand is good, you make a choice of additional damage to sacrifice the ease of mobility and continued spell control. It’s good because it doesn’t devalue learning the skill to cast while directing. And give a option for a different more enjoyable play style for some.
Splitting the tree into single and multi target dps in the games current state might seem bland or a poor choice. But think of all the boss mechanics of shard dungeons and raids. The potential for adds to play a large roll in fights would make these options more meaningful. Since you would need say one dps to handle a different role in the fight by managing adds. While you would need two dps to focus boss to prevent enrages.
This makes fights more interesting and increases replay-ability. Having dps learn multiple fight roles is a good thing.
I can see some benefits for this by speeding up frostbolt / ice lance combo and affliction on small targets. I think it would probably be better if we could store a spell in our left hand by pressing the grip button on our spell hand and use the trigger button on the left hand to release it and control it with our left hand.
I disagree with you on this one. I think the aoe will have some added benefits for bosses. You can keep the boss dotted with afflictions, the warrior can taunt the adds and then a mage can use arcane missiles. Now all the adds are dotted and slowed.
Not all fights you are close enough for ice lance. Your comment about losing 2 ice lances to cast a fireball. I can cast fireball faster than ice lance (due to the delay at the end of ice lance), not sure why it takes you longer to cast fireball than ice lance. This paired with lend a hand might make it viable to cast even faster. No way to know without trying it out
Some good points here, but to maximize damage, mages are going to have to be in both specs. I think it’s going to be important to communicate as to different roles and specs to party members to maximize damage. you only need 1 person to keep frostbolt on the target and 1 person to keep affliction. Without talking, dps will be lost
Lot’s of testing needs to be done before reaching this conclusion.
This is a bold statement and could very well be right, but I think maybe we should wait and do some testing before making any claims. I know they said more tuning will come.
Can’t wait to see what the “Turret Master” Musketeer can do in PvP. It sounds VERY powerful.
You should hate to be that guy.
A frost gives you time generally to whip out 4 ice lances, so I just replaced 2 of the 4 with the spells, but you’re right on that one. You’ll probably only lose out on one ice lance since fireball is much faster to cast. Lend a hand, at least for me, won’t be adding any casting speed I don’t think. I don’t have any issues with having to slow down to aim, and I’m not that great so it can’t be slowing others down that much I wouldn’t think.
Though really, most fights you can get in ice lance range pretty easily if you try. It’s got a great range if you aim it well enough. The fire buff will help beef up our distance spam a little bit, which will be nice.
The dots will be interesting to play around with for sure, I hadn’t though about those as much when I initially made my post. But when you gain the dots you’ll be losing the magic damage weakness from the other tree, so it may just equal out. Though are there really enough boss fights or situations with adds to have this really be worth it besides for clearing the heavy trash in upcoming shard dungeons? I feel like the mage tree could be used on more interesting choices than that. AOE can be mighty nice, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t know if I like having a whole tree dedicated to it.
This and everything I’ve said will all need testing for sure, and I’m sure the trees will be changed and tuned plenty in the coming months.
For frost fire and shadow effects in tier 4 elementalist, will different level spells have different effects? Example: frostbolt 1 gives this effect, frostbolt 2 gives that effect, and frostbolt 3 gives yet another effect? Or is it the same effect for all levels.
I only ask because I think it would be nice to have a reason to use level 1 spells. As of now, they’re harder to cast and the range or speed don’t offer any benefit over other initial cast spells (such as a shadow2 followed by icebolt 2 spam and then Ice lance spam once in range.)