Patch 6.05 (Client/Server)

[Corgi_C]

and warrior like in real life requires endurance

Games should be about gameplay first rather than trying to mimic something in real life. I’d rather not have to worry about brushing my teeth in a survival game and just stick to worrying about drinking water and not starving to death.

Endurance is fine up to a certain point, when people are injuring themselves, you have to ask the question, is that really what devs want? Is the point of the warrior class is to require endurance to that level? Where is the fun in that? They already have to execute attack patterns just like everyone else for minutes on end, and just because everyone has to do that kind of stuff doesn’t make it “equal”.

This game should be about having fun and doing things that are cool in VR first, rather than trying to strain anyone or restrict anyone physically because that’s NOT what even VR games are supposed to be about.

[Quinn_M]

Three things,

1. I feel like lazy is a harsh term to use here. There are plenty of people who have dropped warrior because muscle fatigue was creating legitimate injuries, this helps that issue a lot.

2. When warriors damage talents were introduced they were described as being solo talents intended to allow warriors to fight things more efficiently when not accompanied by a party not to be a competitive DPS spec. I don’t think you will ever see a warrior matching DPS with a quality mage/ranger.

3. There are other ways to use this talent that aren’t the extra wound proc which have strategic viability. I don’t think that this ability will be much of a boost to would dps because you lose the damage of all the in between swings. If that was the intent maybe it should be bumped up to a double proc effect.

[Sockboy]

I’d rather not have to worry about brushing my teeth in a survival game

I never said the game should mimic real life in all aspects, in certain situations certain aspects of a game has to mimic real life. i never stated that they should make this a super realistic game.

to play warrior the class never makes you spasm your arm to keep alive, ive played with many low level tanks before who would swing their sword slowly and stay alive without having to throw their arms out with every swing, its just like every class where if you want to do better you go faster, BUT you are never required to go faster even on the hardest content warriors can still slowly swing a sword while blocking to gain a little more health.

in every situation that requires a physical need whether that be drawing an arrow back or swinging a sword you need to know your limits, the good thing about this game is that this game respects that and doesnt make players have to throw their arms out to play hard end game content.

[Corgi_C]

you are never required to go faster even on the hardest content warriors can still slowly swing a sword while blocking to gain a little more health.

So you’re telling me you can swing slowly on T10 dungeons doing bosses like Mist Keeper and Squiddie and survive because you only need to gain a little more HP?

[Sockboy]

squiddie you dont have to attack and mistkeep if you are swinging an average steady speed then yes you can stay alive, of course that all depends on teamwork.

[G_Alphabet]

Mist keeper is an extreme example, but you can tank Squiddie without swinging your sword at all, just blocking with your shield. Also for most of the groups later on I personally prefer to block with my shield as it generates threat to every mob hitting it, and also as far as I’ve noticed, it generates more than provoke, in late game, provoke simply becomes a tool to help the healer keeping you alive. For most fights you can get through without swinging much, and spamming skills are mostly for bosses, but some of them are possible to do with proper strategy, such as Squiddie, Tank Keeper, Mutated Shroom, Soul keeper, Sentry, Potion keeper, so as you can see, yes, there are some bosses where spamming provoke at max speed is needed on high level shards, but usually for many of them there is no need to do that. If you need to rely on provoke that badly, the strategy you are using is not efficient.

@Sockboy for T10 mist keeper, that’s not really an option, it really is an extreme example

[Corgi_C]

but some of them are possible to do with proper strategy, such as Squiddie, Tank Keeper, Mutated Shroom, Soul keeper, Sentry, Potion keeper, so as you can see, yes, there are some bosses where spamming provoke at max speed is needed on high level shards, but usually for many of them there is no need to do that

How many T10s have you completed without spamming provoke?

[G_Alphabet]

Done Tradu Forest and Tradu Skywalk without spamming it too much, but completed many level 8 and 9s without overly relying on provokes… Anyway, I think we got a bit away from the original topic, so let’s put an end to this

[Lok]

Endurance is fine up to a certain point, when people are injuring themselves, you have to ask the question

RIP Kailus, the true 20 characters.

[Lok]

First thoughts on trap : IT’S A GRENADE !!! So fun to throw. But yeah, not really more useful in end-game

[Riley_D]

This quality of life change for a specific part of the warrior doesn’t feel well designed: Warriors are not fatiguing themselves by wounding in this game. Or if this is about wound in general or leveling in general, increase the damage from wound and drop the bloated “extra” mechanic for people who want to skip every other combo.

People have complained since forever that playing warrior takes a greater toll than every other class (and in general the amount of strain this game demands at the highest levels physically injures people), but this is just solution doesn’t even teach people how to properly play the class. Nor does it address how warriors have to provoke with their lives on the line because of how provoke generates healing.

I’m just making sure you are aware, this mechanic works for all combos, including Provoke. Literally the entire point of this mechanic is you can now reduce by 2/3 the amount of physical swings required to Provoke repeatedly to keep aggro and heal yourself.

[Riley_D]

It seems like once all the bugs get worked out and the timing gets balanced this is going to be a great feature. For balance I think the aim should be that fully utilizing the charge effect should be performance neutral with hardcore warriors who already spam. Of course it would be a buff to those who can’t spam as hard yet and that’s an added benefit as the barriers to the warrior class as is are quite large.

That’s basically what we’re going for in the long run, with the expectation you can do like 2 charges for every full combo and still be neutral.

[Riley_D]

Just a quick update on the new patch with the fixes, we are still working on it. I am hoping to have it out the door at some point this evening, but worst case scenario it will be out first thing in the morning.

[Corgi_C]

I’m just making sure you are aware, this mechanic works for all combos, including Provoke. Literally the entire point of this mechanic is you can now reduce by 2/3 the amount of physical swings required to Provoke repeatedly to keep aggro and heal yourself.

I am aware it works on provoke. Let’s see if it does reduce by 66% the amount of swings needed using provoke once the new fix is out.

@Riley_D

Is the trap supposed to affect elites and bosses? Is this part of the new trap mechanics?

[Chezil]

The only time I have experienced muscle fatigue was on a desert shard 10 on that Trio boss I forget the name but honesty I don’t think muscle fatigue is that much of a problem compared to being a Ranger on plant boss in the jungle dungeon or in long drawn out fights.

A warrior by term is “a brave or experienced soldier or fighter” it should be a option for DPS at endgame content not just Mage/Ranger I’ve talked to a few people that levelled warrior to DPS at endgame only to find out its not viable and groups won’t take you because the DPS is really bad, You’re forced to tank or Reroll DPS if you’re not up for tanking.

Guess what lazy is the term I will use, It isn’t harsh because that is what the mechanic encourages, If Warrior received more a damage boost while using the small shield it would reduce the spamming needed to kill mobs thus reducing muscle fatigue while making them viable to DPS at endgame.

[Immortuos_krad]

ive enjoyed playing the warrior from the first day that I started the fun was that I could indeed feel like a warrior, getting tired is part of being such a thing, all I was looking for in this patch was for the hit detection to be better. i wanted the game to reward me for swinging faster and harder. sadly instead of making it better it got worse and i honestly don’t enjoy the new dash mechanic

[Chezil]

I think you might be confused there isn’t a new “dash” but a new mechanic where after finishing a combo you can lift your sword out of version and preform the whole combo again after you hear a certain sound, sadly it doesn’t give more damage and doesn’t feel rewarding.

[Corgi_C]

all I was looking for in this patch was for the hit detection to be better. i wanted the game to reward me for swinging faster and harder.

There definitely seems to be a problem with faster swings and hit boxes. It feels like the hitboxes vary from player to player, some warriors have an easier time, some have a harder time, and its different between Rift vs Vive, and whatever else that seems to impact.

The same thing applies to spell casting. Some players have an easier time with certain spells and certain ways of drawing it. It really makes all this balancing difficult.

[Gandora]

@Riley_D as a primary tank for a very very long time I have some feedback to the new hitboxes and detection.

First of all the detection for vertical strikes is definitely slightly improved, and I can see that making it easier to pull off some of the other warrior combos like hamstring.

Secondly, I am okay with the storing method, even if it will take me a little while to master it. I can see it having some solid utility.

Now here are some concerns from playtesting it:

1.) Hitboxes have moved far to low. I can tell you moved all of the hitboxes lower to the ground in order to improve vertical strike detection. While I am certain this was helpful for some mobs, the vast majority of mobs I have encountered this presents a serious problem. At this point for many enemies I am having to look at the ground in front of an enemy and swing at the floor instead of the enemy itself. Not only is this immersion breaking but this causes serious issues for the tanks ability to remain aware of his/her surroundings. Please move the hit boxes back up or work on selective placement such that all hitboxes are actually properly inside of the models for enemies.

2.) It is common to perform a combo on an enemy while looking at another (say to block a tank buster), but it does not seem possible to reliably do so with the new head look targeting model. Even looking away from the spot you are provoking on single target seems to have a negative impact on your ability to complete a combo.

3.) The extra delay between slash detection is far too long and significantly reduces the speed at which it is possible to perform a combo. Please reduce the added delay, it is making it near impossible to proc the highest speed Artificing sets no matter how fast you swing.

Thank you in advance for considering my feedback, I am happy to play test anytime, and look forward to the next patch.

[Riley_D]

Thanks for the detailed feedback and for giving it a try for us. I think some of your concerns should be addressed by the small patch but if not please let me know for sure.