PvP First Impressions and Suggestions From the Perspective of a Warrior

Suggestions
#1

Today I was able to experience some 5v5 PvP in the wilds, shout out to Eternal Knights and Union of Ham, and found its to be very difficult as a Warrior on three fronts. I would like to put forth the changes I would make, and open up a discussion on PvP balance in general. I know according the road-map there is some PvP updates in the works, but still wanted to voice my opinion,

As a note I have only really played the Warrior class, so maybe this is just a case of git gud.

The issues as I see them now as a warrior in PvP are in no particular order:

  1. Constant teleportation up-time puts melee classes at a distinct disadvantage.
  2. Warriors lose access to 1/2 of their skills (Shield bash and Horn. I’m counting the other half of their skills as a shield and sword charge.)
  3. The shield isn’t always where you think it is because everyone is scaled to absolute heights.

I have a singular suggestion that would fix 2/3 of these issues through simple a simple(I think?) locomotion change:

In PvP combat, disable teleport unless you are at full stamina.

One of the main uses of shield bash and the warriors horn are to catch fleeing mobs and giving you time to re-obtain aggro. Its difficult as is to perform combos successfully while sliding after a mob that moves in a predictable straight line, it’s neigh impossible to perform combos on a human who is constantly adjusting position in random jumps.

This would allow warriors to actually have time do a full combo on an enemy before they teleport while maintaining a skill gap between two players ability to use sliding locomotion in between teleports and keeps PvP skill reliant on the player which is, to me, a core principle of this game.

This is more of a personal aside: but I also got sick for the first time in VR doing PvP as a warrior. The constant need to move and turn around in circles, simultaneous with particle effects popping in and out of view took my stomach from a spin, and I believe artificially slowing down the need to continuously spin in place would help solve some sickness issues I could see easily being a problem for people more prone to motion sickness in VR.

Alternatively, enabling shield bash to actually shield bash would serve to solve the same set of problems.

I do not have a suggestion for the absolute height shield positioning thing other than practicing more to figure out roughly where on my body corresponds to what on my characters body.

Thank you if you took the time to read this, I’m hoping this opens a nice dialog for other players to express their opinions on the mater as well.

Respectfully,
Nosfouratwo.

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#2

That was such a fantastic time, huge thank you to all the Eternal Knights who came out and enjoyed it with us! Way to keep it classy everyone, and you know I’ll be back for more! See you in the wilds everyone! Also, fantastic post. I’m no warrior, but watching them fight tonight I’ve gotta say this all sounds like some pretty good ideas. Even if not how it turns out to be, I like the fact the gears are turning in people’s heads and can’t wait to see what direction the devs take.

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#3

I didn’t participate in the event, but tried a little bit a pvp, and i think that there are a lot of challenges before you can balance things out…

usually in 1v1 PVP (in other MMO), the equivalent class of what we have in orbus, mage and ranger stay away if they can’t, they die… warriors chase around, if they can catch up before dying they usualy win, musketeer… don’t know about them, don’t know about how much there healing can sustain them… what is sure it that their DPS is pretty low ^^

Anyways, these usual rules don’t really apply here… because of teleportation, because of the lack of auto targeting, as a mage with slow ranged abilities (except arcane runes), you can’t really touch your ennemies if he tries to avoid you… i guess it might be slightly easier for a ranger… but still.
As a warrior you can’t really pin down you enemy either… (but at least if you play the long game, the odds are in your favor)

I do think that there is a need for somekind of auto targeting in PVP, targeting that would break if the line of sight breaks. for mage and ranger it’s pretty self explanatory, if you aim in the general direction of the enemy and you still have a line of sight, it hits. For a warrior it could be like an AOE, if you swing and the enemy is in a radius of a few meters you still hit…
Coupled with that, removing teleportation alltogether while fighting in PVP.

Why autotargeting and not just removing TP, because people can still avoid stuff by using roomscale or moving at the right timing, which is not fair for ranged classes

It’s sad that it would remove most of the skilled based VR fighting stuff, but it the only thing i can think of at this point

#4

I know there is some rules of common courtesy that will be written this weekend, hopefully we will be able to enjoy more Wilds pvp in the futur between the two of our guilds. Really liked that everything was done with both party agreements and kept civilised.

#5

I agree that something should be changed for warrior, but I don’t think slowing down teleports isn’t the way to go. F that would happen, fights would be over almost instantly, with no way to avoid any sort of charged piercing arrow or frost bolt and icelance, u will just get hit by that while you are immobile and just die.

Warriors in general can be used pretty well, and I kind of fear the type of warrior I have in mind, but no one has really started using them like that and idk why(not gonna say how so I don’t die)

And yeah yesterday was fun, and I am looking forward to it again!

#6

While this certainly helps warriors close the gap and stick to their targets, this takes away from how PVP is played out on other classes. Suddenly Runemages are sitting ducks for rangers. Rangers can no longer move and shoot very well, while Warriors get a free teleport via charge attack and can therefore stick to people very easily.

I feel like the core of your suggestion basically just makes it easier for warrior to land hits and makes it harder for everyone else. Not a good way to balance PVP in its current form.

Not sure if it would. Yes it gives you another tool, but it doesn’t last very long and might even last less on players balance wise in the end. There are a lot of questions around how this would work. Would it stop runemages from casting? Or does it only stop movement? Paired with your other suggestion around teleportation it would give warriors a huge advantage and 1v1 fights would turn into a slugfest rather than a “who can land hits while dodging attacks” as it is now.

The devs supposedly have some ideas already for where PVP is headed so let’s hope that changes some things.

#7

Definitely had a lot of fun out there with everyone last night.

Some things to think about when re-balancing for PvP gets done:
-I’d like to see the fights last a bit longer. I think some resilience gear or something needs to be added as I don’t think any class should be able to 1 or 2 shot people. I can get easily 1 or 2 shotted by a ranger.
-LoS needs to be added, I go and hide behind a tree only to be shot through the tree. This will add fun in battlegrounds as there will be obstacles, the same in the wilds.
-All classes needed some type of cc whether it be silence, stun, entangle, etc.

Why can’t we see how much damage we do with an attack on a player? I’m not sure why we can’t see how much actual health we have? Was this intended? If it is, why is it such a secret to hide what our actual health is?

Warrior - definitely needs a stun ability and need to fix some attacks that for some reason go though their shield that shouldn’t.

Mage - spells go really slow and are easily dodged and go through trees. Need to fix the spells so they do not go through objects. Really hard to hit someone who is tele-porting back and forth. Should increase the hit box on a player or in the talent tree add an ability to make certain spells aoe for a small area. If not that, they need an aoe spell that slows or entangles the target. Could also balance these spells with an internal cd. Mana shield doesn’t really seem to do much. We did some testing and there was no visible difference in damage from players whether the spell was on or off.

Ranger - they can easily move and shoot, would be nice to be able to see their arrows a little better to be able to dodge them. Their arrows shouldn’t go through trees or objects. Arrow spamming at close range needs to be nerfed, they should either have to grab arrows behind their back so they can’t just arrow spam or take a significant damage penalty for close range attacks against players. If they are grabbing arrows this would help to see where they are in their shot process and make it easier to see when they are going to shoot.

Musketeer - probably not a lot to change for this class, best class 1v1, a good musketeer with the right setup will kill any class, typically long battles though, need to be able to silence them so they can’t use a healing for a small duration

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#8

Lots of good information here, I know I’m avoiding pvp on my warrior until some balancing, hopeful we get shield bash and maybe our horn as a cc too (forces affected players to auto attack warrior for brief moment).

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#9

Or the horn could be used as a silence or interrupt ability against the other classes.

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#10

I didn’t have much of a chance to be in the battles, but I have done some PVP & watched the battles, and I agree with pretty much everything in here.

I feel that the warriors shield bash should reduce stamina to 0, as that will freeze a person in place for two or three seconds & it should also work as an interrupt, canceling any warrior combos, runemage rune drawing/ready to cast spells, and put any loaded musket orbs/ranger arrows on cooldown rather than letting them fire. Orbs/Arrows that aren’t loaded in their weapon should not be put on cooldown in this case.

The horn should also work as an interrupt/silence, putting everything on Rangers/Muskets on cooldown with 5 or so seconds added to the cooldowns, The silence should affect Runemages & Warriors for two-three seconds, as the runemages would be completely sitting ducks without any spells for 5 seconds & warriors aren’t really using magic.

The Runemage Knockback spells, the Rangers Trap & the Musketeers Gravity well should all work similarly to the warrior shield bash, though they would all probably need some tweaking, as I feel that a gravity well+turret combo could be very OP due to the burst radius if it were identical to the possible warrior shield bash above, maybe it would be best to have that spell as either drain stamina to 0, or as an inturrupt, but not both. Tier 2 Knockback wouldn’t be as OP due to the fact that it can take some time to cast.

The Rangers trap should go off if a person teleports across its position/over its hitbox, stopping the person at that location, rather than where they were teleporting to, it should probably also effect the warriors sword rush.

Runemage Polymorph should be similar to the horn, but with longer cooldowns & dropping stamina to zero as it would have to make contact with the target.

I get the feeling that similar stuff is probably in the works, waiting until after Tradu mines, If those, or similar changes were added, I get the feeling that PVP would be a lot more interesting & would give those abilities a lot more use, as most of them have little/no use in PVP as they are in their current state.

#11

Problem with the ranger trap is in pvp it would be useless, and u would have to be pretty unaware to not notice it and activate it

#12

True, but it’d be better than it is in its current state, also if they fix the vanishing grass bug it may be hard to see in the Lamavora wilds

#13

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