Runic Diversity is bad

TLDR; simple fix - make runic diversity increase the damage of your 4th cast after successfully casting 3 different types of spells, & possibly increase the damage number to like +25% or 30%. OR make runic diversity also increase affliction dot damage.

Mage bread and butter: Fireball.

Fireball -> Frost -> Affliction is the most sensible combo.

  • What gets the 20% damage increase? Affliction initial damage.
  • Does the dot damage of affliction increase from runic diversity? No.

Your rotation would look like:
Fire->Frost->Affliction->Fire

  • lose damage casting frost (2/3 fireball dmg)
  • lose damage casting affliction (or break even roughly)
  • lose damage by losing 1x buff “next spell does increased damage” by casting frost for frost affinity buff instead of fire affinity (13.6% per @Asmund_T)
  • lose damage by boosting frost by 13.6% instead of fireball by 13.6% (from affinity fireball)
  • lose damage momentarily via typical tileset buffs due to interference
  • gain 20% damage to initial affliction impact (comparatively, this is 6.4% vs just casting fire & getting the 13.6% buff)
  • gain 5% damage buff (up to 10%)
  • gain 5% damage buff from iceheart
  • gain 2 ticks of affliction that probably won’t have the chance to actually deal damage before being replaced.

Just think about the fire buff alone…
You lose 33% damage of a fireball casting frost(big), you gain 13.6% damage towards your next affliction(low). Rephrasing…runic diversity is giving you a 6.4% damage increase on your affliction over fireball by costing frost, but costing you a whopping 33% of a fireball. You do get 2 more ticks of affliction, assuming they live out their full lifespan, and that will be worth maybe 40% of a fireball (guessing off numbers). Because you need to maintain two stacks of that 5% damage debuff twice though, it will be unlikely.

So there’s no reason to use frost unless you have frostheart, and a rotation without frostheart actually looks like:
Fire->Affliction->Fire

For a change, frost w/ affinity could increase the duration of the true affinity affliction 5% dmg debuff, but it doesn’t. If it did, it would give you 2 more seconds to cast fireballs instead of affliction. What you actually get from affliction is 5% damage increase from affinity and you can only have 2 stacks of it, the real reason for casting affliction. Frost does nothing to support this 10% damage increase. It does instead however contribute to iceheart, the only reason to use frost in the rotation.

A decent runic diversity rotation would give everyone reason to use frost in their rotation, regardless of iceheart or not. A 20% damage increase is also quite low since you are already losing so much raw damage from casting frost & affliction. Something like +30% would be more appropriate.

The 2 extra ticks of affliction are extremely likely to be lost to other runemages casting affliction or yourself if you are keeping up 3 afflictions / 2 5% dmg debuffs. If the frost increased the duration of the affliction 5% damage debuff, then it would also be great incentive as this would give you more time to avoid casting affliction in favor of more fireballs (thus a damage increase as frost/affliction is a damage decrease).

What would be a good change? Runic diversity empowers your next spell (4th) rather than the 3rd.
Or, affliction dot damage also should receive the damage benefit, not just the initial impact.

Regardless if runic diversity can be made useful or not, or replaced. It’s counter-intuitive right now.

2 Likes

Where did this 20% come from?

Where did 6.4% come from? Guessing your guess of Runic Diversity. Runic diversity gives a 27.272727% boost.

Frost is 62.48% ish of a firebal if you meant that. Not 67%

3 more ticks.

You know there is the option of “Fire -> affliction -> frost -> fire”
This will trigger runic diversity on the frost instead of the weak affliction. The frost boost icon giving the affliction 3 ticks stay on the wand till affliction is hit, so you don’t have to cast it right before affliction.

Just called “Affinity” btw. No “true” in front of it.

With all these corrections dps loss from casting frost is still there but less extreme. Buuut here is the fun part I recenty found out. If you do it right with tilesets, the tileset design barely outsmarts and out dps the second best option, which is the “fire -> affliction -> fire” option.

20% comes from runic diversity.
6.4% comes from 20%-13.6%
Ty for adjusted frost 62.48%
sure for 3 more ticks, last I counted was 2 but my memory is possibly wrong. 2 vs 3 doesn’t matter anyways.
Triggering runic diversity on frost is still a strange rotation, and counter-intuitive towards the developer’s intended goal with affinity to increase the duration of affliction.

I realize that you can roughly balance out the numbers, which I thought I stated. The affliction dps increase 10% is good and frostheart is very good if you have it. Does runic diversity make sense? Does even affinity make sense here? No neither do, and the other strength talent is broken. Allowing it to proc on the 4th cast essentially fixes this both for affinity/true affliction.

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Again it is a 27.272727% boost. -__-

Iceheart you mean?

So I don’t think a counter intuitive rotation is something bad. I like a more difficult puzzle to increase my dps, instead of a simple ooh just do this because it makes sense thinking about it for only 1 minute. It is alot less rewarding like that.

The thing the devs did f up is adding extra ticks to affliction. Not only they made it impossible to keep the 2 weakness stacks up anymore with the longer affliction, the longer rotation needed to do this also makes the rotation too long for the 4 second uptime of tilesets. Which all perfectly fitted if the affliction ticks were not increased. It actually increases your dps if you override the last 3 ticking afflictions. So that is not only counter intuitive, but also mechanic ignoring. Which is indead bad. So I agree on that part of the complaint but not the others.

It’s not worth nitpicking on something like frostheart vs iceheart. I did see you write 27.27bar as well, I didn’t ignore it. The game text says runic diversity adds 20%. If it is 27.27% then the text is incorrect or you are incorporating some other unstated math into it. If so don’t give me the -__- face give the dev’s that face lol.

I believe it’s equally mechanically incorrect to have a counterintuitive rotation that requires frost to go after affliction (not really a difficult puzzle imo you only have 3 spells to consider, and possibly iceheart) as a counterintuitive affinity-debuff.

It’s also not worth casting frost unless you intend to benefit from iceheart (about 1% gain in damage if it is 27.272727%, less if 20%). You do less damage because you lose a fire affinity stack in addition to casting a frost over a fireball, not to mention interfering with tilesets which will be the larger number (depending what yours are). Most do not accommodate for frost.

I already gave the devs that face a year ago. I would recommend to ignore any number in game text because the first thing to not trust is the text of the devs on anything in this game.

I corrected you on way more than 1 thing. It just starts annoying me how much things you are saying wrong, it is not the one thing. If you want to talk with numbers and base your opinion on that, I would assume that that is only holding strong if you know what your talking about. But it just comes over as you have no clue what your talking about. This just triggers me to correct :man_shrugging:

So why did like 99% (figure of speech, basically no-one) of the community not even solve this easy puzzle… It is easy to say something is easy after someone else telling you how it is done.

Idk who you are mad at or why but take a breath lol. I’m only stating available facts based off information available within the game. 27.272727% for example could have been a correction provided with your reasoning. Unlike you I have taken various breaks from Orbus, so there’s no reason for me to know such information. Even with 27.272727% I’ve shown that it’s still not worthwhile without iceheart, so you’ve made no counter point to anything I’ve written. I don’t think there’s a reason for you to be triggered here when I’ve done my best to be tactful.

I don’t know what 99% you are referring to… can you objectively say what I said isn’t true? It’s not hard. When true affliction was nerfed and affinity became the meta I wasn’t playing. I don’t know why it took people so long, and yes it’s naturally easier to point out the optimal rotation after it’s been “discovered”. Why would it be harder? But it’s obvious isn’t it? I don’t think that changes. I have no previous knowledge yet I laid it out immediately.

Not sure what part you think “I don’t have a clue about what I am talking about.” I spitballed 2/3 for frost because it’s a fair assessment and the ± difference of a few percent doesn’t change the result of my opinion. I’m writing a suggestion about a poor mechanic not a thesis… Given your previous posts I’m actually surprised on your hostile attitude for this type of thread lol, for basically no legitimate reason at all.

As stated before, annoyed by all the false information. (small or big)

I did say:

Sadly I will need hours of my time explaining why that is the case. But it is still a background project in progress anyway… so for now I will stop …

Well then it’s also inaccurate to say “affliction” or “frost” or “fire” etc… is my point.

I get you are saying there is a very specific, presumably must be perfectly executed, better tileset out there which can barely do more DPS. To a min-maxer, I can see the appeal. However I just feel this talent is extremely better off benefiting the 4th spell than being a deceiving burden on all other mages.

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