Warrior - Shield should block range attacks

I think that the devs thought that not allowing range attacks to be blocked by a Warrior’s shield would somehow make things “even”. Melee characters engage melee characters, and range attackers engage range. But that’s not how it goes.

Range attacks will always be better than melee.

Why? Because a range attacker can attack at close range or from far way. A melee attacker has only one option: close range. So if a range attacker can move successfully and create distance so as not to get hit by a melee attacker, they will ultimately win.

Furthermore, if there is one reason why Warrior can tank and thus has a role in Orbus is that their shield can block attacks. Take away the defense of the shield, and you take away their primary tool.

So when the shield is useless against range attacks, the Warrior role is diminished by several degrees to the point that late game they don’t tank very well. Lots of mobs and bosses use range attacks at close range. This makes the Warrior taking point blank shots. A few low level pistol scavs could take out a lvl 30+3 gear Warrior in no time. A Warrior could try to dodge, but it would require reading animation cues and timing, and if there is more than one enemy (like 4 pistol scavs) it’s nearly impossible.

Meanwhile, other classes can strafe at range, or heal themselves to full if they get low on HP.

And as for PVP Battlegrounds? Is there any reason to discuss that? Warriors are useless. If a dev played battlegrounds as a Warrior, they would quickly see that Range attackers sprinting across the battlefield with charged shots, nullifies Sword rush - which is the only reasonable way they could quickly close distance to deliver an attack. The warrior simply cannot aim their sword, and rush to their target, before their target has already left. Even if the Warrior got there in time, the Warrior needs time to build up a combo to do any type of significant damage. They would be lucky to get one swipe of their sword in before the Ranger/Scoundrel/Runemage gets some distance and then attacks with their charged shot.

All this changes if a Warrior’s shield can block range attacks. They can tank better in dungeons, and raids. They actually have a role in PVP Battlegrounds where they can block incoming attacks. They could even solo better now that range enemies don’t have absolute superiority.

Please consider this. The Warrior class is incredibly underpowered.


The Paladin’s passive damage reduction works against range attacks correct? Seems fitting the warrior’s equivalent damage reduction should as well. Hopefully they’ll take this into consideration on the tank balance pass.

Also, it sucks on airship that Warriors have to hide on top of the ramp to avoid scav shots. I don’t want to hide :confused: I’m split on how poison rips through tanks defense, but full tank changes might be better suited in its own thread.


Yeah. AoE and poison are still some of Warriors’ worst enemies. I know that a Shield Bash can interrupt a few of things but given the 10 second cool down on Shield Bash, more often a Warrior is saving that Shield Bash to interrupt a Cure spell or some other ability.

Compare the 10 sec Shield Bash cool down to every other class:

  • 8 sec Charged arrow for Ranger
  • 3 sec Charged bullet for Scoundrel
  • less than 1 sec Pushback for Runemage
  • “bonking” the Hammer for Paladin (which they can throw)
  • 2 sec Stun totem for shaman
  • 3 sec Charged musket shot for Musketeer
  • Baton throw for Bard

So basically, every other class can interrupt more often than a Warrior AND they can do it with a ranged attack!

To note, I’ve seen Brutes cast cure on themselves faster than the cool-down for Shield Bash. That coupled with a Warrior’s low damage output at lower levels, it makes solo’ing a Brute at low-level nearly impossible, unlike all the other classes.

1 Like

I agree that warrior shield should be able to block ranged attacks, but saying the warrior is underpowererd in anything other than pvp is just not correct. a good warrior has higher survivability and agro than paladin in most situations, tho way less damage.


Warrior shines in aggro generation and being able to tank against melee. No doubt about that. But take away their shield defense (when against ranged), and aggro generation leads to an early death.

It is underpowered in the sense that they cannot go against low level mobs who can cure themselves if the Warrior is wielding the large shield. The Warrior just can’t do enough damage that would go against the cure rate.

The only way they can do any decent damage is with the small shield and well… you can get away with killing some mobs but again, you probably can’t tank very well and you couldn’t go up against a group of ranged attackers - whether solo or a group. So it’s underpowered there.

Compare that to a Paladin who can put buffs on that would suppress damage from ranged attacks. A Paladin can also heal themselves or the party. A Paladin can also use their hammer throw like a Sword rush in order to get into melee attack distance (or escape) or just use the Hammer throw for a ranged attack. A Paladin can also stun-lock enemies for great amounts of time and then throw up their off-hand for a Light’s defense and block 99% of damage for a few seconds. It’s only a 12 second cool-down so they can teleport/hammer throw until they get their pips back to stun lock or heal themselves. A Paladin also has more damage output.

This is why Paladin is considered better at higher levels for tanking, is a viable solo class and can at least have a chance at PvP.

Take away the shield and a Warrior can’t tank well and that’s it’s number one role.

A Warrior can’t do support because the 10 second cool down for Shield Bash - which is typically reserved for interrupts and not for buffs. And the Blessing of Might last only for 5 seconds with 1 minute cool down.

A Warrior can’t do DPS. Even with wound and going down the berserk tree, potted, small shield, Blessing of Might, 1% DoT gear, and a shield bash… the damage output still couldn’t hold a candle to the other DPS classes - even the Bard offers more DPS.

So if you take away the benefits of the Shield, what do you have left? A class that is outshined by nearly everything else.

I definitely agree that Warriors are really weak when it comes to tanking certain instances. Like it is much easier to do Lich King legitimately with a Paladin than a Warrior because a Paladin can reduce the damage while a Warrior needs to keep moving against orbs (which spins the boss and makes it harder for everyone else).

And PvP is definitely broken and mostly unbalanced.

Wha… with a good warrior Lich King is way easier to do legitimately on Warrior due to the warrior taking no damage from the boss and the adds are just as easy; the reason its harder for most groups is because there are only around 5-10 “good” warriors and only around 3 who can tank every boss regardless of affix. Its due to the lack of warrior experience which would kill a group faster if it was a lack of pally experience.

As for the post above;

Legitimately just use your shield bash; they may have a heal but that is what interrupt is for. You say it does not come up in time but that is just false.

Yes paladin can buff and take less ranged damage; simple solution on warrior is to pay attention and dodge, its not hard. (This does not mean I am arguing against warrior shield blocking ranged attacks)

Warrior while he can’t heal the party he can heal himself more consistently than pally and if you’re doing your job right you should be the only one taking damage unless mobs are split (and then you stay in bounce so still no one dies)

Warrior still has the maneuverability necessary to run away and engage with sword rush (you have a talent to sword rush to allies which for most things is not even necessary.

Pally can run for their cooldowns but so can warrior and most of the time warrior does not ever need to kite for their shield cooldown.

Pally does do more damage and while warrior should not do an equal amount I do think warrior should do more damage in general.

The only reason Paladin is considered better at higher levels is the damage output and the fact it is an easier tank class. A good warrior can do just as much as a pally and do more bosses easier than on pally; the issue is that nearly no one bothers to learn how to play warrior due to its low damage.

Take away hand raise and pally can’t tank well (Pally used to not have a 99% damage reduction hand raise) Of course Warrior would not be able to tank well without a core mechanic. The same would be true for any other class if you removed a core mechanic.

Very few things have interupts and those that do fall on healer normally unless it is Break It or a boss. Blessing of might also lasts 10 seconds not 5. This lack of damage boosting and lack of damage is why pally is chosen more. That does not mean Warrior is not a good tank; it just means its less optimal.

DPS is not your job; you are a tank not a dps stop trying to be something you are not. DPS needs to be improved but it shouldn’t hold a candle to a dps class, its a completely separate role.

You said this before. So if you take away the benefits of the Hand Raise, what do you have left? A tank that is outshined by Warrior…

You misunderstand that Warrior and Pally are tanks that are good at different things. Warrior has better agro generation and survivability at the cost of damage. Paladin on the other hand has better damage at the cost of agro generation and survivability. (It is much harder to pull agro off of a warrior than a pally and musketeers don’t have to try as hard to heal a warrior. If you need more proof that warrior has better survivability there is the following: Warrior can reliably tank mist keeper with a bard healer on a 15 where a pally has not at the current moment)


Note: I didn’t see Richleth’s post before I started writing so sorry if some of this is a repeat.

So… you go on an incline.

It can if you know what you’re doing.

You can dodge ranged attacks.

They established warrior is for agro and paladin is for damage.

Seeing as how you can dodge, you would get a pip every year.

1.5 secs.

This has nothing to do with the warrior’s protection.

It can deal damage but it is a tank that is made for agro, not damage.

Yeah because it’s shield is a large part of its class .___.

As someone who frequently tanks lich king is high-level shards, it only spins due to bugs. If you are going NFL dodging on those bolts, it’ll spin and you’re doing it wrong.

a couple more than 3 (Scott, you, potato, myself, that’s 4 and I’m sure there’s a couple more) but this summarizes essentially most of what I’ve been trying to say. The warrior is not underpowered, you (author) just simply do not have either the skills or strategy.

1 Like

Just to be clear, I mean for the rest of the party, not for the Tank.

Yes I understood that perfectly; again with a good warrior tank its still not hard to aim the orbs properly. Any good warrior tank can do that well on a 15.

1 Like

I am not going to argue if you feel that you think you are the superior player and I am simply not playing good enough . That’s pretty subjective. Granted, I have only been playing up to shard 4 and normal raids (I’ve been level 30 for a couple weeks now). Though I want to state that Warrior has been my main class meaning that I didn’t level it up through another class.

Maybe Warrior was a second class that you leveled to 30 with your main. I don’t know. But you probably have 30+5 or greater epic Warrior gear. Of course you’re going to do well against the normal mobs on the map and unsharded dungeons. Many dungeons will be pretty easy given that you have all that extra vitality and defense.

But if you recall what it’s like to be low-level, you should understand what I am talking about.

Lich King is way easier to do legitimately on Warrior due to the warrior taking no damage from the boss and the adds are just as easy; the reason its harder for most groups is because there are only around 5-10 “good” warriors and only around 3 who can tank every boss regardless of affix.

This tells me that you are not a mid-level Warrior trying to tank an unsharded Lich King.

Legitimately just use your shield bash; they may have a heal but that is what interrupt is for. You say it does not come up in time but that is just false.

If you read my post earlier, I talked about damage output at low-levels and/or wearing the large shield. Brutes can and will heal more often than you can interrupt. I have watched several times in horror as a Brute came off the Cure, walked a few feet and casted Cure again.

If you are high level, you could certainly kill them but again… we are talking about a low-level mob going against a high-level warrior. Not a low-level Warrior going against a mob of the same level. Compare that to other low-level classes that can go against mobs of the same level or higher.

You said this before. So if you take away the benefits of the Hand Raise, what do you have left? A tank that is outshined by Warrior…

Take away hand raise and pally can’t tank well (Pally used to not have a 99% damage reduction hand raise) Of course Warrior would not be able to tank well without a core mechanic. The same would be true for any other class if you removed a core mechanic.

Exactly. Take away the Shield’s benefits and you get quickly outshined. Shield is good only against Melee attacks. ake away the Shield and you have nullified most of the Warrior and it’s core mechanic.
Pally is different. Hand raise is good in all types of attacks. Book heals will always work. Pally has other mechanics that it can rely on well like being able to stun, heal, etc.

DPS is not your job; you are a tank not a dps stop trying to be something you are not. DPS needs to be improved but it shouldn’t hold a candle to a dps class, its a completely separate role.

Yes. I agree. The Warrior is supposed to tank. What I mean is if it can’t tank, it cannot do anything else well. There isn’t a secondary role in a group that a Warrior can fill. Support? DPS? Other classes can take on secondary roles much easier. A Pally can heal the group, do some decent damage, stun-lock, debuff targets, AND it can tank. If a Pally isn’t tanking there are other positions it can fill temporarily and not have to stand there.

Tthe Berserk tree (right side) was designed by the Devs so that the Warrior can solo and do some decent DPS. But in practice it doesn’t. It might be fine when the Warrior is high-level and going against lower level mobs but that isn’t the same problem. Any class should be doing good against lower levels.

Yes paladin can buff and take less ranged damage; simple solution on warrior is to pay attention and dodge, its not hard. (This does not mean I am arguing against warrior shield blocking ranged attacks)

I pay attention to the animation cues, and patterns. Wizards, Sharpshooters and Casters have a delay to their range attack so I can dodge and kite pretty easily - if I have stamina and there isn’t that many.

However, Pistoler Scavs are still my bane to this day. They fire quick and have an incredibly short delay when doing their normal shots. If I am tanking in a high shard dungeon and there is a mob with pistoler scavs, I will not Sword rush over and take the aggro. I have done that enough times where the scavs would nearly instantly all turn and point blank shoot me in the face, tearing down my health in no time. A Paladin? No sweat. It can Hammer throw over there, have some damage reduction buffs, and use a book to heal if the HP is critical.

No, lich king is not hard to do on warrior when you know what you’re doing, I’m confident I’d have no problem tanking it on a level 15 shard with +4 gear, maybe a little +3 even.

Warrior can go against higher level mobs just fine.

Eh, no. Other than pally healer in low content no other class can really fill other roles, warrior will do more damage than a pally that’s not taking damage, warrior will also do more damage than a bard. Warrior DPS is not good by any means, but it’s not as bad as you make it out to be.

Which is why literally every end game group uses inclines to cheese them, they’re not well balanced, simple as that. If you need to dodge them anyway, make sure you stay a good distance away and legit just slide continuously sideways from them, their bullets will always miss by a little bit.

1 Like

I think that one problem here is some players are looking at it from a higher level perspective of someone who is well geared and experienced while the rest of us are looking at this from the perspective of someone who is still learning.

Scoundrel, Musketeer, and Bard can tank up to around Shard 5 depending on their gearing and talents. Musketeer and Bard can both do DPS as well.

Paladin can heal.

Shaman, Ranger, and Runemage are pure DPS. (Shaman and Runemage might be able to do some support, but not enough unless you have a really good tank in an unsharded or low shard dungeon)

Warrior… is basically just a tank. Despite having a DPS option, the problem with Warrior DPS is that it isn’t feasible at lower levels. Yes, if you are high level and have the overlevel movement speed and such, it might not be an issue, but at lower levels, mobs can outrun you and outheal you. Maybe if you are really skilled and experienced already, you can deal with the outheal, but there are some mobs that do seem to heal a bit more often than some cooldowns allow for (particularly if there is a group (which some enemies are grouped))

And as Richleth said, a “good” warrior tank can do Lich King on a 15 shard. Problem is we are talking about unsharded (in other words, less experienced Warriors). I’ve had people leave dungeons because the tank couldn’t do a boss. One wipe and they are out. When the boss is constantly rotating, your party has to get closer to the Lich King or get very far away to give time to dodge or spin with the tank. This might not be an issue in higher shards where players are likely to be more or less familiar with the mechanics, but it is an issue with lower level, unsharded dungeons where players will quit if the tank is so much as level 10-15. (Because it is unfeasible for a level 10-15 tank to hold aggro against 3 level 30 [runemages] and those [runemages] get upset when the tank can’t take aggro away. (Replace [runemages] with really any level 30 DPS that can’t take hits). Also that there are only around 10 ‘good’ Warriors on the entire server kind of says a lot about it being a problem.

It breeds ill will and resentment, reduces the incentive to learn, and reduces the ability to learn. That is why making the warrior more viable for ‘not good’ Warriors is just as important. Of course, if Warrior gets too big of a buff, it will just swap Warrior around to being the preferred tank class, but letting them block ranged attacks with their shield would still help in PvE and PvP. (I also note that nobody is arguing that Warrior is useless in PvP).

Even if blocking ranged did double damage to the shield and did no aggro generation, it would still help Warriors. It would make things somewhat easier for less skilled warriors and for more experienced/skilled warriors, it would be a viable emergency measure without being too overpowered.


I’ve done dungeons with a level 1 warrior tank (one of which ended up around level 6 over the course of two dungeons queues), but we had to teach them how to tank and they were willing to listen to us. I had to offtank as a bard so that the bosses/enemies would go after me instead of our dps and our dps had to lower their dps though. This was with a party of people I knew and we are very patient when it comes to someone willing to learn. Many groups are not like that. We had at least one person leave when they saw the level 1 tank was actually tanking as a level 1. And this was with ones that were willing to learn from others.

You have those warrior tanks that only listen to ‘oh my friend told me that this is what I should do’ or ‘this is what it said to do online’ (we’ll ignore the ones that completely refuse to listen to anyone) and tempers tend to flare up. I don’t even bother reporting some of the stuff that gets flung around since it is kind of understandable that it is just people seeing red from anger and frustration.

You also get the cases of tank willing to learn, but party unwilling to deal with teaching them. That usually ends with players leaving (sometimes after insulting the tank) and the run failing even if one or two players are willing to teach the newer player. If you are lucky, you might get a runemage that is so high in dps that they can just destroy any enemy that pops up short of bosses (and potentially even bosses) and is willing to near-solo the dungeon, but the tank doesn’t learn anything except that runemage does a lot of damage.

These factors just make Warriors a tank class that very few players want to play (the damage issue doesn’t necessarily help either) on top of many players not wanting to tank in the first place. By improving Warriors so that they are a bit easier to use for newer players, you encourage players to learn the class instead of skipping it or powerleveling it (without actually learning it).
Some players might be fine with only the ‘select few’ knowing how to do things, but I’m not that way. If I know something and someone is willing to learn, I’m willing to teach them as far as I am able. The problem is that in order to really teach, you need an environment where that is feasible. Right now, you may or may not get a group where it is feasible to teach a new Warrior player.
By making it so that it is easier for a Warrior to tank in a way that is easier for the party, you encourage new Warriors to learn the class instead of giving up (either due to frustration or due to being discouraged by others).


Also, Pistolers are the worst on the airship and sometimes you can’t use the incline method to deal with them because they will leash. This is especially ‘fun’ if you 3 Pistolers and at least one healer. While a Paladin can soak the hits for the party if needed (a lot harder to hold aggro when you are moving the entire time as you cannot move while your movement hand is vertical (Quest 2) and moving when the controller is facing a weird direction can be somewhat confusing for some), the Warrior can only dodge. This can kill a player that is used to using the tank as a shield or that wasn’t able to see the shot (due to something blocking the visual).

You’re now introducing something that is completely completely unrelated to warrior being underpowered and instead talking about a 30+5 mage taking agro from a level 15 warrior.

Since you seem to know how to do this boss well, why don’t you explain it to them.

It is called mount speed because it increases your mount speed, not your player base speed.

You may as well say take away a mages wand and what do you get? A useless class. Take away a paladins hammer and what do you get? A useless class. You just can’t.

This… is what I’ve been saying. You’re claiming warrior is underpowered when you clearly are not experienced. It’s not the class that’s the problem, it’s your lack of knowledge.

Warrior can heal pretty well.

You are again ignoring what I’ve been saying. Warrior was made for agro. Paladin was made for damage.

Again, not related to warrior being underpowered. You turned inexperience with ranged units into dungeon queue that has completely nothing to do with the warrior’s power which just derailed half the post.

In the end, warrior is not underpowered. If someone is finding warrior is underpowered, the problem is not the class. It is them and whatever they have been taught/not taught.

No, Warrior can SELF heal. I was talking about roles if you read the entire section instead of just the one line. What you basically said, if you look at the context of my post, is that Warrior can queue up as Support because they can heal. Paladin can queue up as Support because they can heal. Then you say that Paladin can queue up as DPS. That is questionable. Possible, but I think as a DPS, they’d do less damage than a Warrior DPS. This isn’t what you are trying to say, but my point is that by looking at individual lines, you are changing what I’m saying (in other words, you are twisting my words and throwing them at my face).

And again, my point is not that the Warrior is overpowered or underpowered. You are breaking my points into pieces instead of taking it as a whole so you are ignoring what I’m saying by doing that. Basically strawman (noun. an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent’s real argument.)

It isn’t an issue of explaining, you can explain it all you want, but in real time, if the boss is spinning, it is hard to explain “stand at x point” since by the time you explain that, it is already too late as the point has moved and bunching up causes other issues.

Basically, issue is coordination, not explanation.

I’m not claiming that warrior is underpowered, just that the way they work discourages newer warriors from learning the class because they get told to use paladin instead or players don’t give them a chance to learn properly, or they get yelled at or insulted. This doesn’t always happen, but it happens a large amount of the time.

And I mention the lv 10 vs lv 30 thing as PART of the problem. The problem I’m talking about is that Warriors are often discouraged from playing Warrior, which then adds to the issue of a lack of knowledge about Warriors. This has everything to do with the warrior’s viability as people can’t learn if they aren’t given the opportunity to do so. (A few people I’ve talked to in-game have mentioned that they stopped tanking because of all the harassment/negative comments they get when they were still learning how to tank. Some of these people were learning the Warrior class).

My entire post was talking about the issue of why Warriors should have a ranged block. The parts you say are derailing or inexperience or w/e are talking about a bunch of factors that are compounding the problem of a lack of skilled and experienced Warriors and that something like giving the warrior the ability to block ranged attacks (even if it was something with a cooldown), would help reduce the issue.

Basically, my proposal was have a ranged block that is viable for lower level dungeons and combat (as well as PvP), but not so powerful that it makes Paladins obsolete in order to help encourage learning the Warrior class.

P.S. If you don’t like it being done to you even as part of an explanation of what you are doing to me, don’t do it to me. My post wasn’t about the Warrior being underpowered (as a PvE tank), but about why Warriors in general would benefit from a ranged block of some form for both PvE (where Warrior tank is often discouraging to play as until level 20+) and PvP (where they are underpowered. I haven’t seen anyone refute this yet.). That only a handful of Warriors (as compared to Paladins) are ‘good’ is a sign of a problem existing.

Your post about warriors blocking ranged attacks which was tied several times into it being underpowered. My point is simple. Warrior was made for mostly single target tanking with serious agro while the paladin was made for group agro with lots of damage. Your idea is nice, your reasons for it are not. The warrior is not underpowered, it is completely fine. If someone is having a problem with warrior being “underpowered” they need a better warrior to explain what they’re doing wrong and different ways to do it. For example, to prevent rotating the lich king you need to have a certain rotation (the same rotation I no heal lich king with). When he breaks your shield, simply step back to the range he will start bolting you. After two bolts, sword rush back and repeat that process. During death burst, simply wait on his shoulder while it’s happening and if your shield is broken back up there and watch the death burst. The lich king will rotate but death burst would have already happened so it’s no problem. I’m happy explaining things and helping people out but I am not happy to help when my words and twisted and thrown back in my face. If you know what I meant there’s no reason to talk about how it could be perceived when there is plenty of context to already explain it.

The issue is not blocking ranged attacks the issue is the pitiful damage. Having a block for projectiles encourages bad play such as jumping in front of DPS. Like I mentioned before the fact warrior has a hard time breaking 1-3k dps with max gear where pally can do 30k is the real factor. Like you said

There are very few warriors but that issue is not due to projectiles it is due to a lack of damage. Both pally and warrior are tanks and will only ever be tanks. Its hard to find warriors because people can’t find help or help each-other as any player who picks up warrior feels weak at first with no damage options.

The solution is not shields blocking ranged attacks; that would barely change anything. What would help is to increase warrior damage both with small and large shield. (With max gear this should be below pally by a fair bit with provoke and equal with wound)

Doing this makes the class playable at lower levels until you level up and start being able to actually tank.

Keep in mind the devs are looking at re-balancing for tanks and healers sometime in 2021 so it is likely we would see these kinds of changes such as damage changes.


Yeah, I agree that the low damage definitely doesn’t help (and is indeed one of the complaints I get with Warrior as DPS), but one of the complaints I’ve heard about Warriors as Tanks is their inability to block ranged attacks for the dps (usually Runemages complain the most), so I think that is still a factor. (What I talked about was from experiencing it myself (both as a Warrior DPS and as a party member and sometimes as a Warrior/Paladin Tank) since I basically do nothing but dungeon queues unless I’m invited to do a shard or am working on weekly missions).

Its the dps’s job to dodge bolts not us tank’s job to babysit them. If they can’t dodge bolts then they die and hopefully learn to dodge bolts at some point.


Logically, that is true, but it is still something that causes some Warriors to be harassed by their party. Unfortunately, some DPS don’t want to have to move around if they can avoid it. (You have no idea how many times I hear something along the lines of “Start playing a Paladin so you can do your job and block Shotgun/Death Burst/etc.”. (Little do they know that my Paladin is higher level and a healer).

I also have to say that these backseat tanks make it very hard to tank (I rely on audio, not visual). “Do x, Don’t do y, Stand over there!” Meanwhile, they are a level 1-11 tank that when they try to show me how to tank, end up doing worse than me following their instructions. I’m not the best tank because I do hold back to make sure I don’t injure myself (no offense, but I have no interest in developing carpal tunnel or any other repetitive stress injuries for a game.), but some DPS (usually Runemage it feels like) make it extra hard to tank.