My thoughts on the whole early access to full-release thing. (Will delete If gets heated)

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#1

It is a strange way of bringing an early access to full-release. To make a new game from scratch (from what i heard) and call it the full-release is kind of odd.

I thought an early access build was there to polish the game for full-release, not to scrap the build and go with another one. So what was the point of the early access didn’t play a part to build the full-release? Something must have happened there. Early access is a slice of what to expect going into full-release, they should be the same build. If the early access wasn’t good enough to build off of to its release, then it wasn’t really in early access right?

In my eyes, they were 2 separate games. If people love an early access more than its full-release, something went wrong. Rare do you hear people love an early access more than the actual game, because the full-release is built from the early access.

People didn’t have to buy Reborn if they played OG so that’s a huge bullet dodged there. (It would have been very shady if Early access players had to buy Reborn so I am thankful for that)

I mostly bring this up because it interests me. I am not picking sides or wanting to bring war.

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#2

I was literally talking about this to a friend like and hour or two ago

yes, making an entirely different game is a very, very strange way to transition out of early access, lol

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#3

Then people would have legitimate reason to be displeased with Reborn since the full-release was different to its “Early access”.

An early access is there to say “This is our vision to the end and this is our promise that the end result will resemble this vision. We are comfortable with what we are presenting to you and elements from this point on will allow us to build off of, and create an experience that you can help us achieve through donations if you like what you see and want to help.”

People would also have legitimate reason to be displeased (More-so if they helped fund the build) that the end experience was nothing like what they thought the full-release was going to be.

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#4

Well, that’s highly exaggerated, it certainly did not only play a part, character models, inventory, class mechanics, lore and so on all this was taken over. Even if the overworld and mob mechanics were re-modelled - and even pretty similar - there is certainly a continuity, in looks, feeling etc.

Watch a video perhaps, then it should already be clear?

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#5

Looking at most of these bring-the-old-game-back posts, some are from the ever-same players who do not even play the game, since months! What is “legitimate” lol, so many games shut down on me, completely, no refund given, or developed in directions I really did not like, well I quit them and moved on, simple as that, not spit in people’s soup all the time who continue playing and enjoy the changes.

And it does not matter what is all said, as a player not familiar with the OG you won’t ever figure the real reasons that some are displeased, here is one as an example: Some of these were traders who surely miss belonging to the chosen few. In the OG you either had a stall - and best one of the few stalls in Highsteppe, no one really bothered visiting Guild City! - or you were pretty much locked out from trading. And you needed a ton of dram to get a stall in the first place, outbidding others with secret bids, one chance per month, not more.
Now if you had no stall - like me for half a year - you could run around in HS talking to players you meet - few enough in my timezone, the game was overall emptier than Reborn! -, or advertise your stuff on discord. Which both did not work, it was a major pain! Traders with stalls barely had any competition, like it is now in the auction house. The rich became richer very fast, it was an endless circle. I finally got a foot into that dull elite-circle of traders by being lucky with my bid, but many months and grinding for dram passed before that.

And now THESE kind of changes got nothing to do with how good or bad the old game was or with early access and what not … They cut some people’s ingame power off or restricted it - in several ways btw, also nerfing mages which lead to another quit-wave (btw the best mages in the game are still able to do twice to tripple the dmg of equally skilled other classes, as you see in logs). And those affected got miffed over it. Now while that is understandable, haunting forums for months like 5y olds, long after quitting, is not.

So yah, there is much deeper, personal reasons for this whole behavior and that’s also why every further line about the topic, specially with people who got no clue what the talk is about, is pretty much wasted.

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#6

I don’t think the original poster wanted the post to go in this direction. It’s simply a general and very valid question in my opinion. It was very well explained that he is simply asking the questions, for general conversation’s sake, not for comparison per say. Most of us do agree that they are two separate games and most of us were deceived by reborn being so different. Simply put, they are different games with different classes, mechanics, mobs, overworld etc. Sure it was based on the old game, but the general feeling is quite different across both ones.

This is not a bring back the old orbus post, but rather just an inquisitive post as to why. I am also curious about the same things. (Well done Pyronaeus for being able to write it properly, something that I think we have all failed at so far)

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#7

I was mostly trying to ask why the transfer from Early access to full-release was the way it was, not the state of the two games. I haven’t heard of an early access getting scraped before a full-release. That’s what I’m interested in, the process and not the OG vs NG war that goes nowhere fast.

Yea, I might not know what I’m talking about when it comes to the previous game because I’m an outsider interested in it.

They took peices from the early access and scraped the rest, then re-created a game to sell as a full-release; That’s odd and why i ask. It is called Reborn as a sequel to the original. So technically they both were full games. Just one was scraped and replaced.

Reborn was a redesign of the “Early access” because the “Early access” wasn’t suitable for full-release for some reason. (And could have been the full-release if something didn’t happen, and I don’t know what that something is).

My statements were to poke at this odd case of full-release and also try to understand other people’s PoV.

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#8

Ehrmm where does “most of us” come from? The player count is decent and those are not all new people, it’s the opposite, actually. For example, I play with almost the same crew like in the original game and no one of them feels this way!! (And most don’t bother even posting here btw - it’s usually complainers which are louder on forums cuz the content ones have no reason to speak up).

Also that there are now different classes and mechanics is flatout wrong. The four older classes are same, some, not even all, were developed further, there’s rather minor changes, their mechanics are basically same! (Obviously, or how would you do a ranger or mage completely differently… this was precisely not done even despite people suggesting greater changes…)

The transfer was the way it was because many, many things were requested by players! Scroll back on forums and read up, that is the #1 reason. That there’s hardcore-nostalgics whining for weeks was pretty much unexpected, because lots of ideas were coming from players, in the first place. For example: daily/weekly quests, auction house, minigames or anything to do other than fishing/farming, optional pvp in the whole overworld; it was critized that you could nuke everything in starter areas in seconds as a high level, that questing in groups with mixed level range does not work well; it was asked many times to level alt-classes with less grind (missions); people requested more complicated overworld fights (that’s why mobs fuzz around so much now :frowning: ); loadouts to switch classes faster; a random queue etc. etc. Almost all Reborn changes were once suggested here, on forums, by players. Sure can’t please everyone, sure some were controversial and it’s questionable how some things were done (ex. levelscaling) but most these ideas were not comin’ outta the blue.

However, on the technical side things needed to be redone this or that way, because the software was outdated, the whole (unity) framework was too old to proceed from there. Plus it was done for art/quality reasons, models, specially landscapes, are self-designed now instead of the initial standard stuff - which was hardly unique because every game dev can just buy and use those.

That all was scrapped and is oh-so-very-different is a misconception, though, which you only can get if you don’t have the comparison yourself and listen to people convincing themselves more and more it was sooo awesome and sooo different, the more fuzzy their memory gets (i’m not really one of them and already pointed out where there’s continuity).
Again, look at pictures or videos and judge yourself, it’s actually clear first sight that these are not totally different games… some things were different, sure, but many others are similar.

For example, when I farm, fish, do dungeons or world bosses it pretty much feels just same like in the OG, because, well, it all is, mechanics-wise; bosses got various attacks, we jump around to dodge them, I gotta heal my group of 5 by shooting orbs around, my main class (musky) was changed a little - and improved imo -, but not majorly; we still insert shards even, which we got from normal dungeons etc., none of this feels like a major change.
If I want something new then I need to do events, minigames or switch to one of the new classes, these are 3 areas which are really added and “new”, the rest, imo, not so much.

#9

To be fair… the majority of the players from the old game don’t play anymore. Everyone knows that almost all of the old players stopped playing when reborn started, and it doesn’t take a genius to know why that is.

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#10

“Everyone knows that” … oh ok, my bad, then it must be true ;D [What? Do you even notice there is not one point in these sentences, no argument, just empty claims? Wonder how many more quitters come to troll that thread … that is the ONE amazing thing I don’t get: You’re not playing this game since ages, why the heck even care or click around on the forums lol.]

#11

Now as for those interested in arguments, not phrases (new post in case the above gets moderated…), there’s numbers, the armory, the forums which provide those. And I tell you why and when the playerbase changed, I was pretty much playing alone in the last weeks of the OG. Some logged in weekly for the raid, some not at all. And that was surprisingly before they even knew what is coming.

Then there was the Reborn beta and we tested the beta with solely “old” players, because, any others were not even having access to that. The forums are full of posts from this time, and the time after release, look it up. The opposite happened, there wasn’t a quitter-wave, at first, some who already quit were instead returning.

Now that there’s guilds, namely nova and abc, who braced thru the Reborn dungeon content in no time and after that quit, is another topic. That’s not because of OG vs. Reborn, they obviously were bored by repetitive content; many quit when 5 dungeon levels were added, due to my experience, because they had no intention to do the same stuff to 15 instead of 10.
Why do I think reborn is not the (main) reason for this? Fun fact, exact same happened to the old game already and no matter what they add, it will happen again, because the endurance and motivation to grind is just very different between players.

[And btw, the content which some are solely interested in, is endgame (raids/dungeons), they hardly care for all the rest, I heard that many times and Reborn kinda caters these also, providing a much faster way to get there, least with 1-2 classes… the downside is, if leveling is that fast and then the dungeon content limited you will not stay very long, overall, except if you like the grind for legendaries etc. which we still pursue.]

#12

Don’t know where you got the idea that I don’t play the game (casually) anymore. Could have just looked me up on the forums to fact check, but screw the facts am I right?

It is true whether everyone knows it or not

#13

I check all my facts, looked you up on the armory; not only once since I check people posting here, every now and then; if you’re not active or for example not 30 that changes my view on some posts, majorly.

#14

Armory says I haven’t played in 11 days (on my main) so I guess that is what counts as “ages”. Regardless of whether I actively play or not, that doesn’t make my opinion on the game any less valid. Now that this point has been made, this thread can get back on track.

#15

I doubt it, it was successfully derailed by now and needs alot of cleanup (not that there’s much point in the whole discussion anyway) - I don’t only look at your last login, these don’t tell much… only recently alot of “inactives” gathered in hs for other reasons for example :wink: . I look at the content you play, at mutations for example which tell when your last shard was, at shard counts and levels overall… and yes, it does matter - on any forum - if you play the game which the talk is all about or not, strange, but true :slight_smile:

#16

It really doesn’t matter, but whatever. Maybe it would matter if I got to level 5 and then quit, but I played the game for more time that many of the games current active players, so yes, my opinion is completely valid (and I still play, soooo). Also, I don’t really do any content on my main account whenever I play on it, but this doesn’t mean that I didn’t play. Sitting in highsteppe and casting/practicing spells is much more fun for me compared to running shards.

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#17

:sweat: I was hoping to have this not detrail but eh, alright. (Seems more people want to argue which is even more pointless at this point not meh.) Thank you Marshmallow for contributing to this and answering what the thread was about. (Even if you do find it a waste of time) I’ll probably just delete this thread :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: (Adding to how pointless all this really is and how lazy I am to clean this up)

#18

I think Metris did a good description of why Reborn was made. A combination of implementing a lot of player requests, updating unity, and changing to making their own models for performance instead of store bought models.

The core of this thread if I understood correctly though is the question ‘why label it out of early access?’. This is more difficult to explain and to be honest I think only a few of the devs themselves (maybe only 1) can answer.

I would guess it has something to do with a marketing trick to get more ppl into the game. Mainly by looking at the seriousness of the game differently. Labeling something as early access has an effect on how harsh and serious ppl take a game. Maybe they don’t want to give the impression for Reborn that it is also early access. Because for me early access says ‘we not done with the base of the game and or have some game breaking unacceptable bugs’. If that part of the game I just described doesn’t change majorly in the near future, what is the point of the early access label than? Making ppl have false hopes for a huge game core change that won’t happen and let them wait and not play for nothing?

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#19

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