PvE DPS Class Balance

Suggestions
#225

For the past couple of days I’ve been getting scoundrel to thirty and have noticed a huge change in the damage soloing and agaisnt trash. The curve mechanic does not feel naturual at all making it frustrating to achieve showing off on tiny mobs from a distance. Also sometimes it seems like if you start combat with a charged shot that you curve for showing off the showing off buff will proc but not not stack with the card effect you load most of the time. It does seem a lot easier to show off at close range but the damage out put just isn’t their anymore. It’s a similar problem like with the ranger where once the mob closes the distance you can’t really maximize your damage to rank 5.

I’m not really sure how to fix this though. Before the fix it felt like it was too high or too easy imo. I would like the class to be more skill based but the curve mechanic needs work and that would seem like the way to go. Maybe ff showing off stacked somehow, so the more you curved the higher the damage?

#226

This doesn’t look painful at all!

Edit: My bad was private

#227

Says video is unavailable

2 Likes
#228

Because there’s no proof it’s painful? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

#229

Or it’s so painful even the video died.

1 Like
#230

I mean I did 8 per second and never hurt myself so anyone who did was just playing the class wrong

#231

Just a sidenote, I think - as I understood it from above - the changes on curve-mechanics have been rerolled since a while now, curving works like it always did after people posted it was made worse.

The only issue remaining is the dmg nerf which is supposed to be compensated by curving (high) ranks.
From practice this:

  • does not seem to work on bosses; even very well trained scoundrels in ideal fight-settings (rank V consistently; good card-combos; no interrupts or much movement needed) can’t get close to former numbers and due to the - imo huge - ranger buffs they are visibly below everyone else now
  • does not seem to work on trash, at all, because there is no feasible way to consistently curve high - at least III, best IV or V - on those AND unfold damage after.
    And I blame dungeon architecture, movement of mobs/group etc. for that; these things are only noticeable in live-fights, mainly the speed of these fights is a problem for proper card management and talents (crit-stacks; 5% boost), as well.
1 Like
#232

8 shots per second? Show me a video where you are doing that lol. Back in the day I was hitting around 3.3 shots per second without much of an issue so I am sure it is possible to be much higher now… but 8!?

On that subject;

There definitely are limitations that need to be known about injuring yourself when playing due to play style… But if you are careful, you can do 100+ dungeons in 5 days without any injury :wink: (back when tradu dungeons were released this is what I did with function, qquantum and a couple others).

#233

Back on the subject of scoundrel…

So your experience is that the skill cap has been tuned so high that hitting high numbers is too hard?

@DocAibolit interested in your take as the most skilled scoundrel i know in the game at the moment.

#234

From the limited data we currently have, it seems that boss ad spawns as well as the ranger ult introduce a significant discrepancy between the scoundrel and ranger. There’s a lot of overhead that is required to get curves on trash, and most people don’t risk it if the ads need to go down fast (mutated rat ratlings, lich king skeletons). There’s not really a way to resolve this without making scoundrel even more overpowered when engaging fights (unless you separate pve and pvp damage values.)

So overall the change to curve damage scaling does make the class skill-based but at the same time it takes a lot more practice than I have in me to consistently hit curves on a sapling starfrusher from 20 meters and by the time I land the curve the mage and ranger have the thing halfway dead. With that increased overhead to start doing max damage, there’s no practical reason to play scoundrel over ranger or shaman when dealing with trash packs.

#235

:neutral_face:

#236

Your mic is muted, right? It’s missing that familiar clack-clack-clack-clack-clack-clack.

Edit: throwback complaint post about ranger spam: Ranger spam isn't that fun

#237

I think this is a good example of what i previously mentioned (forget which post) about the difference in required skill level to play scoundrels.

I think from everything I have heard, the best thing to do would be to:

  1. Make it so that scoundrel PvE damage can be handicapped upwards for a while until scoundrels start appearing who are dealing sick dps.

  2. Make sure that PvP damage isn’t suddenly increased with that change but retained at its current levels (it seems a bit better balanced now in PvP situations). PvE only as Doc said.

I really want to play with scoundrels in PvE situations… but there just aren’t that many people playing them at the moment because they do have a little bit of catching up to do against other classes in terms of sustainable dps throughout dungeons.

Thats my 2 cents on the subject at the moment… This is just from looking through a bunch of combat logs and listening to results of tests which have been conducted by a few different community members.

#238

If the situation is: “rank V consistently; good card-combos; no interrupts or much movement needed”
… then that amounts to ideal. The cap is not tuned to hard, at least on boss-fights, but curving high makes no longer a difference compared with other classes playing normally. Don’t see what theoretically can be added; if someone already curves the highest ranks, then that is it.
To make all of this more interesting the cards need to pop faster and allow a variety of combos or more store options.

And seriously about all these skills and developing them for 1k hours and bla, I play with rangers who started in reborn, not even in the beta. They are top of everyone by now, including mages which are round since the OG, 2y in and nope, there is apparently no 100s hours of solo practice needed to hit weak spots and get into a good rotation. But scoundrels which hardly anyone found attractive enough already, to play in the endgame, should be harder, practice their *ss off to reach their former top or medium level and cope with a nerf, why.
A ranger who just dinged with blue weapon also does incredibly well rn, more than any fresh scoundrel, and that with limited clues on anything talent- or class-related. That’s the result on the medium-core base if you scale classes up to top mages or try to.
Why the scoundrel fell through the cracks now in pve has two reasons, first it was OP in pvp and second, almost no one playing it in pve and hence noone really caring if it’s underpowered or not.
Pvp should be dealt with, separately, I don’t know why that is even mixed up in pve-balance considerations.

As for ‘skill’, curving on bosses IS skill and it takes 100s hours already to improve on it and not miss every 2nd, 3rd or 4th, in bossfights that is where a healthy difference between less and more skilled scoundrels lies and so far it was visible very well, also when I compare my own, better and worse fights in logs.
If ‘vertical curves’ are additionally required to get high ranks on trash - yet have to see ANYONE in the entire game doing this, successfully, in a live-situation in broken hall tunnels or sewers, not on a still standing dummy - the class is dead imo. Since that movement in itself is nothing attractive to even consider; not sure how it even is supposed to work on the Rift S which tends to loose tracking if hands get to close.

Oh and btw scoundrels still miss a working ult, as of now.

#239

That is basically the biggest advantage of the scoundrel class, not a downside of it. You can do a dance in a corner and still can do max dps. xD. Every other class can never do that. You are not even forced to be far away from mobs 24/7 like ranger is. Just one curve far shot every X seconds and then you can almost hug the enemy again. Not that it is fully practical of-course but it has more freedom of keeping damage constant while moving than other dps classes.

#240

I was picturing an ideal situation where it’s always better to stand still. Once you found your rank V distance you hardly miss. Too much change of position (“dance in a corner” is not what I mean…) is also bad for true gambler buffs, if you don’t get crits in regularly, they expire.
I am thinking of airship boss 1 where I often enough needed to take balls for the tank or of sewer slime, both don’t allow stable performance like some others where you just be still and fire away.

#241

The few seconds you can dance is only when you are charging your bullet otherwise you losing dps in a way that is not related to the true gambler.

1 Like
#242

Very first impression on the balance without scoundrel-nerf (thx @Riley_D for the rollback…): I think it is now very promising.
I get at least close to ranger dmg in the very first runs (low level shards) and the comparison is actually ideal because the specific ranger I play with had around same hours of practice in, he started in reborn.
Also I do see alot of space to improve on runs since I switched to the On the Line talent which I find challenging.

The only thing I wished for the future is wider spaces so we actually can curve sideways on trash. Sometimes (Broken Halls) there is a wall or those pillars, plus not really space to step back. If the whole dungeon just would be more spacey, trash IV and V curves could be done, likely, with alot of practice though.
Another thing is visibility; the ranks are hardly visible from a distance.

But for now I think the balance is on a very good way since ranger dmg isn’t oddly close to the tank anymore - as it was before the buffs - and neither is the scoundrel (NO clue how 10% could make such a difference though… likely base dmg is somehow affecting crits and everything to result in much more in the end).

1 Like
#243

I wish I could sign a waiver and have no physical caps lol

#244

This topic was automatically closed 60 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.