Ranger playstyle poll

Suggestions
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#1

This poll is coming out of the discussion that was started in the below post:

Basically, some of us don’t like the Ranger mechanic that requires a player to spam shots in order to maximize their damage output. Right now the game puts a limit at 3 shots per second. What this means, is that to maximize your damage output, you need to spam arrow shots as fast as you can so that you get off 3 every second, while also using the charged and special shots when available.

(There is also a bonus that Rangers receive for shooting targets from a distance, but for solo-players, this really only applies to the first couple shots as most mobs close the gap quickly enough that you lose the damage bonus almost immediately)

Our main complaint is that spamming arrows isn’t fun, doesn’t feel realistic, and for some people results in “Ranger’s elbow” which forces them to take an extended break from the game to recover.

One solution I proposed was to implement a meter that (every time you draw the bowstring) charges to max damage over 1 second and then begins to decay if you hold past 1 second (decreasing damage). What this would achieve is rewarding players for how well they can time their shots instead of rewarding how fast they can shoot.

There were also other suggestions such as adding a required quiver draw to slow down the speed without implementing a further speed cap.

Anyway, I’m happy to admit that my way isn’t the preferred way if that is the case, so here is a poll to see what everyone else thinks:

  • I like the way things are. I think damage should be determined by speed and accuracy.
  • I don’t like spamming arrows. I think base damage should be determined by pacing your shots correctly at intervals determined by a charging meter (or something similar). Bonuses from special arrows and the charged shot work as implemented.
  • I don’t like spamming arrows, but I don’t like the idea of a charging meter either. I want another solution.
  • I don’t care and I’d rather have the devs work on new content than on implementing playstyle changes.

0 voters

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5 Likes
#2

I’m OP of the original discussion. I think a combination of these 2 things would be my vote.

I’d love a quiver to make it feel like I’m pulling an arrow (for both fun and slowing down the spam) instead of having a permanent arrow hand. This would also allow rangers to use potions and such a lot easier when they’re inbetween arrow pulls.

In addition to that, it would also be interesting to have that skilled timed shot. Maybe while our ult is activated (or just being hasted by someone) it would charge faster.

3 Likes
#3

I see two separate issues here, for soloing and group play.

In group play, I feel like spamming should be discouraged in favor of standing far enough away that you have to aim. Here the charge meter could work, or something like extra damage if you can hit smaller targets on the mob. A good example of this is in the game Fortnite where you can hit things with the pickaxe to destroy them or hit specific areas that appear to destroy them faster.

When soloing, you need a mechanic for finishing things off that reach you, which is currently to spam arrows. I’m not sure if there’s a better bow mechanic for this scenario. Maybe a knife that would do very low damage but would hamstring the mob so you could kite it more effectively, but that’s not really different from the trap.

2 Likes
#4

The idea of timing is that if you time your shots correctly with the meter, it would result in the same amount of damage done over one second as spamming currently does.

2 Likes
#5

Would it only be a thing when you’re in short range? I think if you can quickly hit a mob at medium or long range then you shouldn’t have to be slowed down by a charge meter. I can land 3-4 shots on a mob before it gets in “lose orb” range, but if I had to charge each for a second it would halve that.

#6

In my mind it’d replace the current system and therefore always be active. But like I said, 1 correctly timed shot would do the same damage as 3 spammed shots right now. So if you were worried about getting off another shot before you lost the ranged bonus, you could shoot again quickly without waiting for a full meter charge. But 1 second per shot is still shooting pretty quickly, much more quickly than anyone but the best could in real life.

#7

there are problems on this discussion thread.

the first problem being we don’t want to see people spamming the bow so fast they seem god like.

and the second problem we don’t want to the people who play this class standing off to the side not able to be as active in a fight as they might like and unable to effectively do enough dps to kill things solo.

so here’s my solutions

Solution One
a quiver not in the since of limiting there ammunition but after firing there arrow they need to grab another instead of just spawning a new one right in there hands

Reason One
This will slow people down but allow you to continue spamming all you want

Solution Two
what could also be done is adding in a damage reduction bar for spam shooting were the they can fire as fast as they want but there damage drops by 5 maybe 10 damage per shot indicated by the bar until there doing only 1/10 of there total damage
the bar can be charged passively and actively

passively over time

actively by hitting mobs with a well placed charge shot

Reason Two
this is my best of bolth worlds there allowed to spam fire until the bar hits 0 and when there doing the charge shots they don’t half to worry about being totally defenseless wile solo

also we don’t need to replace the current system they just need improvement as the saying goes Rome wasn’t built in a day and these systems wont be either

#8

What about “warrior’s shoulder”

#9

I love the idea of a timing bar on shots. It would quell the random spamming shots, and it adds another layer of skill to really make you feel like a focused marksman when you pull off a big hit.

3 Likes
#10

Another thing to it would be just as tedious to have to grab a new arrow every time as well, just switching it to a diff action, I would have to hurry up grabbing over my back every time and possibly hitting my headset or my ceiling due to it not being so high.

1 Like
#11

The way archery is in the game is fine its fun and it rewards you for both up-close and spamming or at range and targeting, the trap really helps to if you use it properly. its one of the things where your trying to fix something that’s not broken. personally I like fan-firing the bow its actually a fun thing to do.

3 Likes
#12

I don’t understand how people find spam firing fun. It looks ridiculous. It’s actively unhealthy, verging on painful. And I can’t imagine anyone jumped in to Ranger going “I want to jiggle my arm as fast as possible for as long possible until my target dies”.

I’m sure it feels good to deal that much damage, but, long term, keeping it or losing isn’t going to impact Ranger DPS; if it’s kept, they’ll balance against it and it’ll just become necessary for everyone.

Maybe mini-charge shots isn’t the right answer, but it’s better than keeping the spam centric play that will just eat more and more Ranger gameplay.

6 Likes
#13

You already have to time your shots the way it works, if you shoot more than 3 arrows a second you will deal only 1 damage.
The ranger is not “Just spam your arrows as fast as you can”, you need speed, timing and accuracy.
I like both the fast-paced shooting and aiming from a crazy distance, but being FORCED to aim for 1 second when you are ready to shoot in less than half time is boring.
The class had many changes from pre-alpha to avoid just shooting 5 arrows a second in front of the target and now it’s just fine, it doesn’t need a total change like that.

4 Likes
#14

Looks like I’m in the minority. I enjoy the way it is now. I like that Orbus has more active classes but I can see why you guys don’t. It can feel spammy in boss fights especially.

Honestly I’m not a fan of the trap mechanic at all. I never use it. Maybe they can do something to replace that completely. :sweat_smile:

#15

Are you holding the bow at arm’s length and drawing all the way to your cheek the way you would with a real bow? Cause I have a hard time believing you are able to do that full motion 3 times in under a second. Do the full motion once as if you were actually drawing and releasing a real arrow. Takes about a second if you pause just a moment to aim on the full draw. Start a stopwatch and tap on a table every second. I think you will find that that is far from a slow, boring pace. It’s more of a deliberate pace that still strains the limits of what is realistically possible.

As for having to pace your shots right now, give me a break… All that happens is any shots beyond 3 in under a second are worth a single point, future shots aren’t penalized. I’ve heard people saying that seeing those 1’s spamming when they go over the limit is their goal.

2 Likes
#16

I think we might be speaking with too high a commitment to 1 second. Realism shouldn’t be the goal, because it’s often a trap in game design. I would be happy with:

  • Stop spam arrows in boss fights; a big target is too easy to hit.
  • Encourage deliberate shots, even at close range.
  • Don’t hurt our DPS.
  • Don’t hurt our arms. I’d like to keep playing this for a long time. New technologies pose new risks and I’d like to not be the first case of “VR arm” or something.
7 Likes
#17

Agreed on all points. I think .5 sec is too fast, more than 1 second too slow. Keeping DPS the same is most important thing though.

2 Likes
#18

This is fun to theorize: https://www.online-stopwatch.com/metronome/

Just based on that, I’d agree that .5 (120) is too fast. However, 1s (60) feels too slow, almost lethargic. In the middle at .75 (80) feels nice, though. And keeping that pace consistently for maximum damage would still raise your heartbeat. If we account for the extra time required to actually draw the string, a .6 second or so charge would probably put a Ranger at an average .75 attack time.

With a fun damage curve (“back + inOut” interpolation?), there’d be a lot of skill, with maybe a nice “sweet spot” near the end where a perfectly timed shot will do a little bit of extra damage. I’d dislike losing damage for holding the string too long though. Giving people enough time to line up the shot seems more appropriate.

3 Likes
#19

More like this:

Less like this:

13 Likes
#20

Another idea is to have position-based damage. So, if a dps were hitting from behind, they’d do an increased amount of damage (possibly just raising the crit chance slightly). I don’t know if it’s at all feasible for this game to support tracking that, though.

It would leave solo play the same essentially, but could add a couple new dimensions to group play. You would need to coordinate more with your tank and move around to make sure you had consistent back time. If the crit chance from behind was higher, it would also give an incentive to break the spam and use charged or power arrows for a higher base damage to crit with.

As it stands now, the skill cap to “speed, timing, and accuracy” is disappointingly low, so pretty much every ranger is interchangeable with one another from a damage standpoint.