This! Going in for mats and being jumped by someone who dislikes you while you are fighting off spiders is annoying if you are not into pvp. Some of these pots make a big difference in shards.
So I moved this to its own thread because I think itās a really interesting discussion to have as a community and itās something Iām interested in specific feedback on now that the game has been out for a while, as we start to consider āwhatās nextā.
The reason behind the design decision to put valuable materials into the Wilds, and make the Wilds a PvP-enabled zone with tradable items dropping, was basically to add some incentive to have to work together to gather those goods, to add some danger to acquiring them, and to increase the rarity of achieving the goal of obtaining them.
As opposed to a system where all of the entire economy is PvE-driven, which basically just devolves into whoever can do the most mindless grinding gets the most resources.
One area that I think might be worth exploring in this is the role of free-for-all (āfactionlessā) PvP versus having more of a built-in āteamā that youāre on (besides your Fellowship). So for example if there were areas of the Wilds that could be controlled by one faction or another, and made it āsaferā for players who prefer to avoid PvP to go harvest those resources, while the more PvP focused players could fight over controlling those points.
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I think the aberrations pose enough of a danger that forces people to work together, and Iām not opposed to the bag dropping element. If the aberrations donāt pose enough of a danger, you can make them more dangerous.
The community in this game is overwhelmingly kind and cooperative, and even if some are into PvP, itās not clear why we all have to be.
This is an interesting concept with some well executed parallels in other games (e.g. ratting in EVE online null sec).
The risk would be making the won territory too safe. That could devalue gated materials very significantly. Perhaps being in won territory could provide some aid (e.g. weak guards come to your aid when bandits attack) while being in hostile territory could be extra dangerous (e.g. alert nearby players that you entered the area). Thereād still be a benefit to being in your territory, but you donāt have a run of the land without real risk.
To be fair, you have to be into PVE if you want high level gear. You can just trade for anything PVP-based.
Trouble with this is that with such a small player base it will force player to join one of 2 or 3 big Fellowship that have players the play 24/7 to be able to collect mats. That seems very unfair to people with normal gaming schedules.
I donāt mind working hard to get it at all. And my fave part of the game is the cooperation that it takes to do things like world bosses. I LOVE doing world bosses because everyone has to work together and share strats ect to get them down. Its great! I dislike pvp because it always feels like an us vrs them thing. Which is fine! There is nothing wrong with people who like that. I just donāt like fighting against another person to reach a goal. I like fighting with other people to reach a goal. Thats why I like the shards so much because I get to work with my guys and do this really cool hard thing. Pvp feels like exclusion. Especially the way its been going. Things like the world bosses anyone can join and fight together.
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Then youāre essentially turning off the potion making mechanic to all PvEāers. Also, it leads to a monopoly for the PvP crowd - which, again, used to be a primary dev concern.
So will I be forced to team up with people I donāt know or want to team up with?
Why all these weird PvP ideas. PvP is good in plenty of other games. Make a good arena that people can queue for and winning teams get points to buy items. It is a simple idea that works without making this system that forces PvEers to to do things they donāt like.
Or it comes back to āworking togetherā. Thereās also not just a āPVE crowdā and a āPVP crowdā. Thereās the fishing crowd. Thereās the alchemy crowd. Thereās the artificing and the dragon breeding and the harvesting crowds. Part of MMOs is that you canāt do it all yourself. Having a section of content for PVP folk is just another piece of that. Itās often an neglected piece, but still a valid group to cater to and make important to the economy.
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PvP is not the same as fishing or potion-making. I could give you a laundry list of MMORPGs that never force PvP, but have it as a side activity or on itās own server, with no specific benefit than the fun for people into it.
As always, itās up to the devs on what type of game they want to make.
You arenāt ever forced to do things you donāt like. Get your perspectives straight homie.
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I guess my thinking overall is that I know there are some people who just plain donāt enjoy PvP. At all.
At the same time if we separate off PvP into just something like an instanced arena, it doesnāt really feel like part of the game. The goal was never to make everyone do PvP, it was to make provide people who enjoy PvP with a way to affect the overall game world and economy, not just a way to increase their own personal āHonor Ratingā or something like that.
I think a control-point style system could provide opportunities for both types of play to co-exist a little better.
That said, I think this type of thread has a danger to devolve into a simple argument between āI like PvPā or āI hate PvPā, and really what Iām looking for is feedback on what role PvP should play in the economy and what game mechanics should exist to bring that out.
One other quick note, as I know this can be a bit of a contentious topic, is that this thread is not about convincing anyone else that youāre right and theyāre wrong. Feel free to express your opinion and if you see someone who disagrees with you, thatās fine.
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I like the idea of the Wilds and the risk / reward it brings. I donāt feel anyone is forced to enter or participate. I like gathering things, but I have no interest in making anything. I donāt go to PvP, I go to try to be sneaky and not get killed (and panic run and laugh when I am). So, to me, it is a completely optional area that tries to cater in these little pockets an audience directed outside PvE only. If I didnāt want to risk it, Iād ask someone interested to go for me (if not to escort me). Maybe Iād pay with dram, barter/trade, or offer some other service if the risk taker doesnāt want to for free. As a community we all have different strengths and likes and dislikes, so letās use each other to fill in the gaps. This doesnāt have to be within-fellowship specific; it can be a matter of community relations.
I think the factions idea sounds interesting! Iād love to see some brainstorming behind that. I hope someday the Wilds becomes a massive water balloon fight. With teams, perhaps paintball is a better analogy 
although I also love the dynamic of those āchaotic evilā players keeping us all on our toes!
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I think the trickster chest has been a great addition, itās been pretty fun so far. I think maybe a middle ground might be to give a way to get those rare mats slowly through PVE. Maybe make two of the wilds have stronger packs, keep the rewards the same there and remove pvp. Then make one wilds an area where you can create large parties and control a smaller area like the trickster chest area but the rewards here would allow you to much more quickly gain materials than the PVE area. (This was just an example of a way to model it not actually suggesting you change the current wilds)
I think currently the cost of the (wilds) items is pretty high- and some are too rare to sell so increasing their numbers a bit wouldnāt be a bad thing in relation to the economy.
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I like to gather everything I can for myself and keep myself supplied with the stuff I need, that means harvesting and fishing everything I need, however when it comes to the wilds mats thatās a bit different
For the most part I donāt go into the wilds alone as it makes me feel like an easy target, I buy a lot of the wildās harvestables from merchants and get the fish myself, Iāve pumped a lot of money into the mushrooms and thatās because I find it too much hassle to go and get them I find it easier to go as a group than on my own but when youāre in a group you split the mats and then most of the time you donāt end up with much due to the lack of the spawn points for them.
While I have the potions I need, I often find myself selling them on cheaper to the people Iām doing shards with as they donāt always have the time (or money, I take I owe youās from some of them) to get their own mats and/or canāt afford them.
Right now I feel like the best money maker is going to the wilds and farming there, better than grinding dungeons and such due to the fact that more and more people are using the potions for dungeons and less people are selling due to needing them for themselves which has been making it a lot harder/expensive to buy the mats needed recently, which makes it feel a bit like you are being forced to go into the PvP zones to get what you need for PvE
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Thatās interesting feedback, maybe we just need to increase the spawn rates a bit then so that there is more available to people who donāt want to do PvP. As itās not really the goal to force people to go there, the whole point was supposed to be you could just buy it if you wanted to instead.
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I think itās that they are the best way to make money but also the only reason for you to spend money currently.
I have also considered a scenario where there are both PvE and PvP ways to acquire the materials (e.g.a chest you fight over that spawns once an hour vs. having to go harvest the nodes and fight monsters), but it feels like it would be really, really hard to get the balancing on that rightā¦there would always be a claim that āItās way easier to get this if you donāt mind PvPā or āDonāt bother with the chest itās too easy just to fight the mobsā, etc.
One thing we could consider doing is some sort of variation of a PvP opt-in system. E.g. if you are willing to set a flag that enables PvP, you get increased drops from the zone. So it keeps the ability to take on additional risk for additional reward, but at the same time if you just donāt want to PvP at all you arenāt locked out from anything in the game.
Similarly, we could have the zones do some sort of rotation timer where for 5 hours they are PvP-enabled and the rewards are greater (e.g. higher material spawn rate, etc.) and then for 5 hours they are PvE-only, but the spawn rates are lower.
The idea of the control point is to basically provide a mechanism whereby PvP-centric players could ācaptureā for example a mine, which then would spawn guards friendly to that faction to guard it. PvE-focused players could then feel fairly safe mining there, as any PvP-attack would have to make it past the guards. Then PvP-centric players on the other team could attempt to capture the mine, etc.
The only problem with that type of system is it relies on the factions themselves being really balanced population-wise and skill-wise, which as Iām sure weāve all experienced doesnāt always happen.
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