Well of course not lol
I know that losing your card because you missed would feel really bad but thatâs kinda my whole point. Missing your big damage burst should feel bad. big prepared skill shots should feel valuable and strategically using them at the right time to make sure you are not going to waste it is an important aspect of skill expression that scoundrel doesnât have to do right now.
One important thing to consider as well is that this change would likely fundamentally change some of how scoundrel is played. If you evaluate the change under the context of how it would affect the existing playstyle obviously its going to seem harsh and awkward. That change in playstyle is part of the whole reason I want this though. If you are fighting an evasive and well armored opponent from a distance it seems reasonable to me that you might want to hit the curve shot and then try to land the empowered flame card. I think if you are fighting an opponent in the absolute most disadvantageous possible set of conditions you should be insentivised to strategise or work towards more favorable conditions rather than just hoping you land a lucky curve and win anyways.
I think if you are abushing someone or gaming really hard and hitting those shots from a distance, thats what warrants being able to hit the absolute peak empowered flame burst damage. If you absolutely insist on fighting from a distance just working through your deck doesnât seem that unreasonable to me. Like 3 of your 7 cards are poisons or flames and if you dont immediately draw a damage card, you are preaty likely to end up getting a bonus damage or shuffle empowerment so having to actually rely on the heart of the cards in combat seems preaty consistant on average to me. Its a bit luck based and the deck might draw poorly when you need it the most but thats like the whole flavor of the class. Its supposed to be this gambling class living and dying by the cards its dealt.
Since I guess you didnât get this imma say it again. This for pvp? Yes. This for pve? No. There is absolutely 110% completely no reason whatsoever in any reality to change pve. Pve is fine as is. Pvp though isnât.
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Ahh. It hid his message so I misread the context a little
Yea my message was pointing out that this doesnât affect pve if you can land your shots against stationary targets. Pvp is going to be the biggest impact as its more difficult to hit rank shots on moving targets.
Iâm just saying this because it seems people are quick to shut this idea down on the chance that they wonât be able to separate this between pve and pvp. I think it would be worth it to stop hearing people complain about scoundrel everytime I try to play the game, and I do believe this would fix it. I think the trade off of having to actually hit my shots in pve would totally be worth not hearing endless complaints about how a class is not fair.
Infiniterune, You talk about this like it would only effect Pve when we all know it would affect both and break scoundrel even more. I already have my cards break 3 times per shard nurfing my dps. Even with the poison card not disappearing with a missed curve shot my top Dps will be 70k. Your whole idea of breaking scoundrel even further is garbage. Get a new hobby maybe focus on the classes you actually play. As for unfair, mage was never intended to cast over 3 per second to have that much of an advantage over any class. I donât here you complaining to cut the dps of each fire ball in half to make it have the same dps output as every other class because thatâs a class you actually play and that would be inconvenient for you. I donât even play pvp and your idea would wreck this game for a lot of people if it broke pve when changed. So give it a rest already and focus your energy on something else. Everyone has already told you their are many weaknesses you can exploit if you are good enough. Stop trying to break Scoundrel even further and get better at the game as it currently is to get around your problem!
I think the issues youâre describing with scoundrel are an actual bug. I would recommend making a post under bugs so the devs can look into it.
I think this a completely different issue and to answer your question casting Isnât consistently as 3 per second the thing that lets you actually hit the 3 per second is that say you cast 7 per 3 seconds well one of those is going to be a 3 because itâs 3 fireballs during that second not actual consistent cast time and this also seems to be more of a personal vendetta then actual feedback
3 Likes
No itâs more about people being complacent and making suggestions that are one sided. If you really think about it Bucky you would have to make it so scoundrels cards disappear on a miss , mages max damage was equal to all other classes, no matter how fast you cast.mages would have to have a healing ability and scoundrels would have to have a decurse. The whole point is the game was designed to have to work together and not for one person to be able to do everything. For infiniterune to suggest nerfing a scoundrel and letting you be able to do 100k per sec without adjusting it so that the weâre the same makes no sense. Each class has its benefits and weakness that many people have brought up that you could take advantage of! play the game for what it is and quit being such a baby about it trying to get an edge.
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This wouldnât change scoundrels damage ceiling.
Also many people have asked for scoundrels to be fixed and it has not happened.this subject has been addressed many times. Maybe if Bucky was on board something would happen but until that day I was told it is a dead subject
No but it is an unnecessary change (pve)
I think all class bugs are stupid and shouldnât even exist in the first place or top priority like you said cards breaking ghost casting ranger arrows being funky bard instruments appearing when not ready or just never actually appearing I think it shouldnât be apart of the game but thatâs not what the topic is about
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Iâm not saying this is a necessary pve change. What I am saying, is that this is an arguably necessary pvp change, and that if it cannot be done without changing pve too, then it is 100% worth it.
Okay let me go point by point.
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I have been very clear that I only want to see this affect pvp battlegrounds. The rest of this thread seems to almost unanimously agree with me there as Logan is the only person who has not said that they support this in battlegrounds. Having battlegrounds act a little differently than the overworld doesnât seem that unreasonable to me. The devs would never extend beyond that to mess with pve if they believed that the community would be as strongly against that as most players seem to be in this thread. I personally love scoundrelâs pve balance. I think it provides one of the better learning curves in the game. Its fun to play early game but has lots of complexity and growth late game. The class is fun to play through all stages of the game and how you play the class evolves as you get better. Scoundrel is preaty high up on my list to recomend to new players when they ask me what class to play.
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I believe all classes deserve to function properly and would love to see all the bugs fixed. That doesnât justify not wanting to balance the class though. These bugs donât represent the intended functionality of the class and optimistically should be fixed asap. Scoundrel isnât the only class affected by bugs and is far from being the worst affected by them. I main musket in high level content. When you miss a card you miss a little bit of damage. When the game deletes my turret or one of my orbs my whole party can die. Same goes for bard and the tanks, their bugs lose whole boss fights. The other dps classes have bugs too, shamans lose their totems and mages ghost cast.
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Mage is not overpowered in pvp. This is a common misconception held preaty much exclusively by players who donât know how to play mage. If you played the class in pvp you would understand that mage is infact countered by every other viable pvp class in the game. You have cloth armor so you get countered by any class with burst damage, ambush, or engage. Unfortunately for mages burst damage, ambushing, and engage would probably be my top 3 words to describe the pvp meta. The reason why it doesnât feel like that has a lot to do with survivor bias. The only mages you ever see in battle grounds are very very good at the game. You do not see bad mages because if you are not exceedingly good at the class and exceedingly better than your opponents you are going to have a bad time. This applies to a lesser extent for bard and shaman. The classes feel much more viable than they actually are because thereâs a single digit number of very good players who actually play them. The opposite applies for scoundrel. You see disproportionately high numbers of lower skilled players playing it because it is so widely known for having such a vastly lower skill floor than every other class in the game.
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My main underlying complaint has to do with mechanics not balance. I do believe that class is too strong in battlegrounds but my argument is that because this single interaction with its cards makes the class inherently problematic, no amount of number changes can satisfyingly balance the class. Balance is ultimately a zero sum game. Losing its card when it misses affords the class an ability to be allowed to do more damage. If the class stays the same I think it will probably continue to see more flat nerfs in the upcoming battlegrounds update. Regardless of how strong you think scoundrel deserves to be, I think a high damage scoundrel that loses its card when it misses is more fun to play as and against than a low damage scoundrel that doesnât lose its card.
2 Likes
Also argument unrelated idea i had that is a little less harsh and might go over better:
What if when you throw your card up it does that rotational disappearing thing buffs do and goes away after a second or two if you dont hit anything. It would work exactly like paladins empowerment book buff where if you hit the shot it consumes it but you have that short window of time to do it. Burn empowerments would stick around and wouldnât get consumed if your card isnât used (my reasoning is that overriding cards doesnât get rid of it so this shouldnât either).
I think it would still accomplish a lot of what I want.
-It would force scoundrels to need to hold onto the card and selectively decide when the moment is right to use it.
-It would allow players to try to bait out the card.
-It would make ambushing and blindly turning corners into scoundrels a little more interesting. It would still be a preaty bad idea to intentionally try to fight them at point blank but I like the idea of making scoundrels feel like they need to be on their toes so they can throw up their card at a moments notice.
-it would add a lot of mind games and counterplay. As a scoundrel you might want to do things like bluffing aggressive play or pretending to do the motion of throwing a card up to trick players into thinking you wasted your card.
Bonus difference:
-this would allow the class to be a little less punishing on newer players while still adding some level of punishment. If you miss your first big curved charge shot you still have a small window of time to try not to waste your card.
-This would also add some small additional level of risk/reward based skill expression if you miss in deciding if you want to go for another risky curve, an easier to hit straight charge shot, or a spray of normal bullets to try to make sure you land something.
Obviously this still only applies to battlegrounds
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