How to fix scoundrel in pvp battlegrounds

For a while one shot scoundrel has been oppressively overpowered in pvp. It has recently recieved some small general damage nerfs which are appreciated but I think there is a greater issue with the class that needs to be addressed.

Scoundrel does not lose its cards when it misses. In battlegrounds if a scoundrel shoots it should consume their card and only apply the card effect to that one bullet.

Every other class in the game has counterplay and weaknesses and if they miss their big damage attack they are left vulnerable and easily engaged upon.

Mages can stack up tons of fireballs but if you can get behind cover, strategically get close, or catch them by surprise, they are easy kills with little armor and little ability to hit evasive targets

Bards can one-shot cloth classes with their damage crechendos but the projectiles move slow so they need to be point blank to land them and they lack the burst to threaten healthier classes. Even as a cloth class if you can bait out the chrechendo and get the bard to miss, they become easy targets with little immediate burst and cloth armor

Rangers can translate tempo and range into devastating piercing arrows. They need to play perfectly to execute this though. If you can close the gap, dodge their shots to drain their orbs, or dodge their special arrow, they lose almost everything that makes them a threat

Paladins have lots of armor, mobility, and sustain but lack the burst to actually one-shot even cloth classes and need to be in melee range to attack players. If you can stay out of arms reach and DoT them or burst them down and exhaust their heal/shield you can take advantage of their short range.

Scoundrel on the other hand lacks this counterplay. Instead of trying to bait out their trump card, I am forced to simply absolutely outplay them and never get hit a single time. If you dodge their shot the next one is just as powerful. If they spray wildly every single bullet can kill you. You can’t close the distance because then it simply makes it easier for them to hit you. You can’t ambush them because the one-shot can be executed instantly. Your only option is to transparently fight them from a distance where they will suppress you through superior projectile speed and volume of fire.

With every other class in the game I have a win condition to work towards. I have some combination of range, environment, and used abilities where I am at an advantage. Thats why scoundrel is still oppressive even post nerf. I can’t strategize or fight them intelligently because there is no terms I can fight them on where I feel like I have any control over the outcome of the fight. I am forced to simply accept that I just need to be substantially better than my opponent and that my success relies upon them continuously and consistently playing poorly.

So I guess in summary make scoundrel lose its card when it misses in battle grounds

8 Likes

I am 100% for this! Like he said, every other class in game has abilities that are consumed whether you hit or miss and then have to wait until it’s ready again, why is scoundrel not the same?

2 Likes

Scoundrel cards are only super useful on charged shots. If I miss a charge I’m super vulnerable until the next charge. Hitting every shot is unlikely if the opponent has even the basic ability to move. 99% of the players I see in battlegrounds stand still or move very predictably. Are scoundrels annoying to face? Sure. I’ve only encountered 2 scoundrels I’ve had to actually work hard to beat (as a scoundrel). There are plenty of holes to exploit, but the skill floor of scoundrel is also lower than any other class.

The trick to one-shots is closing the distance and prepping the empowered flame pre-encounter. Rangers and mage shots can travel further than a scoundrel shot so if I’m not hiding around a corner or waiting in ambush I’m at a huge disadvantage. I refuse to 1v1 shiki because it’s too difficult for me to close the gap on him.

TL;DR Scoundrel has major weaknesses that even basic pvp skills can exploit

2 Likes

The thing is that everyother class actually effectively loses their one-shot. Having scoundrel have to spend 1 second charging another just isn’t punishing enough.

That low skill floor is ultimately the problem I am trying to fix. If you are good at the game you will hit your shot. I just want to make the class actually punish you like every other class does when you miss.

1 Like

I wish it took 1 second to charge a 4shot charge lol

2 Likes

I really don’t want the devs to do that, because the chance that it will also apply for PvE with be immense.

I’m all for this in pvp but not pve. I’ve been avoiding pvp because of the 1 shot meta stuff.

1 Like

the only thing is that the setup for it is not difficult (a talent gives you a flame/or whatever the one shot card is) and all you have to do is then land a 2/5 chance which isn’t enough to really be oh well it takes enough time to be fair

also only for pvp, please don’t do this to pve

5 Likes

Obviously I don’t want this to apply to pve either.

I think this would be easy to do for battlegrounds though. I would love to see some solution for overworld pvp but I understand that that is much more difficult to implement and I’m not as worried about it.

I think that making changes exclusive to battlegrounds is critical to being able to make it fun and balanced. A lot of how the classes are designed is with dungeon content in mind not fair and competitive pvp gameplay. You can change the numbers but that doesn’t change the fact that some classes and abilities just don’t translate well into player vs player content.

I would argue that generally being more accepting of parity differences between battlegrounds and pve would have the opposite effect. It would take a lot of pressure off the devs to feel like they need to worry about how pve changes like the class buffs that caused the scoundrel problem in the first place would affect pvp.

At least for PvP I agree. But like Logan said above scoundrel has massive weaknesses if you just play unpredictably. Getting close to a scoundrel is dangerous sure, even more so when you are a mage and are thus not as powerful close range; but most players in PvP battlegrounds have no clue how to PvP with a target that moves that unpredictably.

Again like Logan said like 99% of players faced are basically target dummies in how they either don’t move or move very predictably (Ex mage telecasting for a kill is easily countered by not putting them in combat while they telecast so they are close to their spells and when they almost reach you teleport through behind them and its a free kill).

Landing a shot on a player is extremely difficult if they are on a complete opposite side of you every teleport. Good scoundrel PvP players however know how to move that unpredictably and as such you use their limited range to your advantage. Both of the other 2 dps that are good PvP classes have much higher range than scoundrel and thus your best bet is to take them out at a far. I agree that 1 shots are bullshit when it takes nearly no effort to achieve like the ranger one shot (you have to hit a charged piercing from at least a decent distance I believe).

Mage is a good counter pick due to its range and high damage output; 3 afflictions on a scoundrel and then massive avoidance and they are usually as good as dead.

I am all for PvP battlegrounds specifically to punish scoundrels if they miss their charge shot but I don’t want to see that in overworld PvP or PvE mainly it would be impossible to implement in those scenarios and would make the class less fun to play. This way while 1 shots are still possible and decently easy a scoundrel can get massively punished for missing like you mention.

2 Likes

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

well if I accidentally shot does that make me bad?

I mean… I don’t know many games that consider missing a good thing…

It’s not about how bad people are, it’s about rotations and stuff like that. It would be an unnecessary addition when scoundrel is working just fine. Also, please don’t be toxic like that. This community doesn’t welcome that.

1 Like

I don’t know of any rotations that would be affected

My rotation would be affected.

Would you mind explaining how?

My rotation would be affected. Plenty of rotations would be affected. No one has perfect aim. It usually takes me a couple tries to curve it at the start of a fight and I don’t wanna loose my poisons because of it.

So going back to the original point, scoundrel is the only class not punished for missing…

It also requires a lot of skill not to miss your curves. I see nothing wrong with the way it is right now.