So after a week of farming aberations and group mobs in the wild I have come to realise that the loot system is abit “off” imo .
From my understanding the looting works like this.
The Less people you have in the group. The more loot you get.
From my perspective this is very wrong. This encourages groups to take in less people as possible, to be able to get more loot for themselfs. Now the community is so awesome so we usualy don’t leave anyone behind ( good job players of Orbus! ).
Correct me if i’m wrong devs, but you’re orignal thought is. IF you are a full party you kill faster and should have the same amount of loot in the same amount of time as a solo/small group. If this was the goal it is not working.
Second problem that i’ve noticed.
If a player with very bad gear joins the group. He is more likely to get drops then the rest of the group.
This has happend to me several times. We take in a new guy to help him out in the wilds. And after 1 hour they have 2-3 Purple drops, while the rest of my well geared team has spent 3 days farming and got nothing.
So my suggestion is.
Reward people for having a full group, Dropchance bonus / XP bonus. Just because you can kill it with 3, you should always invite more to join the fun without beeing punished for it.
this might not be the case, but if there is a higher drop chance for people that are less geared. Remove this and make everything equally drop. Just because the rest of the group spent days/weeks to farm their gear. A non geared player should not have the advantage. Like i said this might have been a coincidence. But I heard other people complain about the same thing.
I agree with this to an extent. I feel its fine to lower the drop rate in group, but not as drastically as they have it. Im thinking maybe decrease drop rate by like 5% per person. It feels like it literally divides up the drop rate. After farming full epics, mostly solo, I also felt like grouping was a waste of time, because I know I could be farming them faster solo.
Exactly.
When we were in a full group in 2hrs I got maybe 1 blue loot from the elite spiders. When others had to leave and only two of us remained and farmed in the exact same place the exact same kind of elites I got a blue drop from literally every spider we killed. Coincidence? Maybe. But…
It is totally okay that currently we don’t really have anything else to do on lvl20 just farming aberrations/elites for purple loot. Of course they must have a chance to drop that loot. But since it was stated already that those mobs are not the main source of purple items why do we even have this high chance for a purple drop? If those mobs are intended for a group of players why is there possibility to kill them solo or without a full group? I guess this wasn’t the original intention but there it is. The musketeer soloing aberrations was already patched. Well now there are the mages soloing the elites for purple drop.
I already know about people who got a complete set of purples and I’m close to that too. What will be the reason for those who already have everything to even set their foot into the new dungeons? The screenshot with a downed boss or pure enthusiasm?
As a guild leader how can I make a fully farmed (with both the Physical and Magical def purple set) to come with us to the dungeon which can not give them anything else but takes up their playtime? And if that class has a healer/tank role how will the other less fortunate players have a full group?
As suggestions:
I really would give the purple loot some kind of “holy grail” feeling. It should be something really rare and exceptionally good item. Like the original legendary items in WoW for example.
Since many players already have purple items from aberrations, the dungeon should have different and better loot drops. This would not make the time spent on aberrations pointless but would give those players a reason to play.
Loot chance should always be equal, even in dungeons and groups. If that drop rate is always low almost noone would complain.
The bosses should ALWAYS drop some gear item. Really disappointing going there, killing a harder enemy and after having one player shout out: “I got something! I got something! A Rotten Finger!!”
Okay, so there are a lot of things going on in this thread, some of which are just misinformation, and some of which are things that we will be changing in the future.
First off, this is the first I’ve heard about the Venom Spider dropping Epic drops. That obviously wasn’t intended, the only thing that should be dropping Epic drops are the Aberrations the come in the groups. And obviously you can’t solo those. The drop rate is tuned assuming a Level 20 Elite is going to be killed by a group (because it’s supposed to be an Aberration, not a regular Elite), so yes if you can solo it they will be dropping much faster than intended.
Quite frankly, it would have been nice if someone would have mentioned this sooner, but I guess that’s how it goes. At the end of the day it’s our fault for not catching that, and we’ll be patching it out this morning.
I’ve already stated previously the loot in the new end-game dungeons will be better than the current loot available on the Aberrations and World Bosses. Obviously if you’re coming into the end-game dungeon with a set of Epics you’re going to have an easier time doing it than if you come in with just a set of Rare items. But if you want the best gear in the game you’re going to have to do the end-game dungeons.
Everyone’s roll chance is individual, so in theory if you all got super lucky you could all get a drop at the same time. However, the chance for you to get something is reduced based on a formula that does go down the more people are in your party. To some degree this logically makes sense. Consider if there is a group of 10 Deer, and there is a 10% chance by default to get a Deer Horn. That means that on average that group should have 1 horn among them. If we don’t reduce the drop chance and you have a group of 5 people who kill those 10 deer, it wouldn’t make sense for 5 horns to drop, right? It should still be 1 horn.
At the same time, if you are in a group of 5 people killing a group of 10 deer, and the 10 deer are normally solo-able, then you should be able to blow through those 10 deer and kill more like 40 or 50 deer in the same amount of time. I would also say, if you’re in a group you are much less danger when doing that fight. A group of 5 people is not really at any risk whatsoever of dying to those deer.
So I’m not sure it makes sense to say that the drop rate should be the same or only 5% less when you’re in that situation. Yes you have to kill way more monsters to get the same loot, but at the same time, you are in less danger overall.
Now, if we consider a dungeon boss or an Aberration group, that is going to be challenging for a group. Which is why bosses and elites have a much higher base chance of drop built in, because it’s intended that you are farming those in a group and as such we boost the base drop rate so that after it’s divided up among the group members it’s still pretty high.
Of course, if you have something like the Elite Venom Spider which was unintentionally solo-able then you can see how that is going to throw everything off because now you’ve got something with a boosted drop rate you can solo or group, which isn’t normally a choice you’re supposed to be able to make in that situation.
So I guess that’s the explanation of how it works and the logic behind it, but I’m also just pointing out that your perception may be flawed because of that enemy being unbalanced. Which is really more the problem than anything else.
This is just RNG being RNG, there is nothing about loot chance that changes based on the level of the player relative to the mob.
This is one are we are making some changes ahead of the end game dungeons coming out. I will have more details to share on that later this week.
@Riley_D I think that what Damander is talking about is the conversations held in numerous discords and among the community (regarding mages). I don’t think it was ever reported on the forums, as everyone thought it was intended.
I thought the spiders were reported around the same time as the pyramid heads since they are a similar issue. Soloing the spiders is as easy as frostbolt kiting, even with the new movement fix.
Look, at the end of the day, as I said, this is our fault for not catching it sooner.
At the same time, I think it’s pretty obvious that there would never be a situation where we’d put one type of mob in the game that dropped Epic loot and was solo-able.
So again, totally our fault, and honestly I apologize that this somehow went unnoticed. At the same time, in the future if you see something like this, please let us know sooner rather than later via the forums, a PM, an email to me, etc.
You are correct. I did mean in the in game community not necessarily on the forums.
I’m still somewhat new to the game and didn’t know this wasn’t an attended drop.
I am glad to hear about this change though, it gives us more of a reason to do aberrations.
This is correct. But. In my example the 5-man group play had a penalty compared to the 2-man group. Is that intended? Because next time we will think about gathering a full group if we could kill those same mobs without it. Result: people with certain classes probably will be left out.
Maybe the original “don’t have any drops” feeling is coming from the fact that we can’t see each other’s loot bags. If anyone could see the other party member’s (otherwise unannounced) loot bags then after killing the mob which “drops nothing” the people would think like “OMG LOOT! What did you get mate?? Maybe next time that will be mine!” Without changig the current drop system this could take away the sense of futility of farming in a group. The loot bags could have the owner’s name above them and we could get new gear with the originally intended rate.
Your example I believe was of the Spider I talked about which was broken. So basically with 2 people you were getting the loot of a 5-person group elite. That has been fixed as of this morning.
Sorry I was probably pretty unclear. I 100% agree on this. Non epic mobs, should absolutely have a lower drop chance when in a group. And they should have even smaller drop chance if they are “green” to you. To prevent higher level players clearing out trash for farming regents or other items. But aborations should be excluded from this rule imo.
I can only say how I have experienced this. And lots of Aborations are doable with a group of 3. When running a group of 3 the drops are “common”. But as more people join in, even though we kill em alot faster, drop rate lowers so much, that we can farm for hours without seeing any loot. Mabey this is just unlucky with the dices. But after countless days and hours of farming, the pattern adds up.
I guess you can look at it from different perspectives… Maybe the drop rate is too good with fewer group members. Or the drop rate is too bad with alot of members. It all comes down too how hard you guys want it to be finding epic items. I’m just giving my 2 cents on the subject. I know that my daily hours played decreased by alot when I get the feeling of not gaining anything from my hard work.
Doing World bosses with 40+ People, I can understand the drop rate though
Anyways, keep up the good work! I do love the game
You are right, my example was about the spiders but the same is true for the aberrations.
After Kalween’s reply I can’t add more to this topic. He just wrote exactly what I had tried.
Please do not take this as pointing out a huge, game-breaking-fault because it is not. The game is already great as it is now, maybe my 200+ hours of playtime proves my good opinion about it!
I think there should be incentives to grouping beyond just being able to kill things faster or when you absolutely need a group.
I would go just the opposite and increase loot / experience for people who group up. You can manage the abuses through various methods. However, the benefits to incentives for grouping far outweigh the potential abuses by people who may try to exploit those incentives.
I have seen way too many games that don’t encourage grouping and you it becomes a MMO where most solo.
From my experience running in a group of 5 farming aberrations- the drop rate feels about right. Someone gets a drop often enough. Now whether or not you’re that person is RNG and addressing that is another conversation entirely.
On the one hand, maybe you should be rewarded for being able to do the content with less people (and therefore taking on additional challenge and more risk, presumably)? But on the other hand, we certainly want to encourage people to group up as well.
I just want to share my opinion while this is still a fresh conversation. I’ve had 50/50 luck the last week or two since hitting 20 on getting a group together for world boss/abberations. Part of the reason is because of the perceptions mentioned above about smaller group sizes impacting drop rates. I’ve probably spent close to 20 hours farming abs or world boss in that time. Despite that significant time investment, I’ve only gotten one real drop (capes don’t count) and the groups I’ve been with have collectively gotten less than 5 (While I can’t be sure, everyone always asks if anyone got to drop afterwards).
With that as context, I would strongly suggest that any tuning you do goes towards rewarding grouping rather than rewarding soloing or smaller group sizes. And if nothing changes, even once the word gets out that the group size doesn’t really matter, it’s still very discouraging to play for 20 hours and just get one drop.
P.s. please consider giving capes stats or alternately rolled in a separate drop table. My first purple drop in this game was a cape
Oh man i just hit 20 last night and spiders were identified as a mistake and patched. Aberration drop rates are almost nonexistant in a full party. At least at 20 itll be a litle easier to get groups…
I actually thought about this because honestly it’s not really fair in a sense that people got to take advantage of it before and now it’s patched, and I’m sympathetic to that. But it was just too big of an imbalance to leave alone.
That said, I would turn your statement around and say, “Oh man I just hit 20 last night just in time for the new end game dungeons to come out in less than a week which have better gear, more interesting mechanics, and will have a more defined way of getting that gear that’s not as RNG-dependent. I’m glad I didn’t have to bash my head against a boring spider for 20 hours straight.”
