Delceri many of these ideas are excellent points in how the game balance could be improved. I of course have no argument either way for these facts in this matter. As I don’t believe they effect either side of this discussion.
I would like to state upon rereading this thread. I would like to retract my extremely brass statement that dram inflation is the main problem effecting the market. There are many issues and problems effecting the current market, of which dram inflation is only one.
I love the simple economy in Orbus. If you wanna make lotsa money all you need to do is dedicate your playtime to producing things that other players value… and if you don’t wanna do that dram will not bottleneck your progress or stress you out in any way.
I haven’t felt any “problems” at all… I think the in game economy is artful and accessible at the same time. It is one of my favorite aspects of the game.
But, Ken, the thing is that there is essentially no economy in the game. As you note, pretty much anything in the game can be gotten by simply spending time picking up the raw materials just lying on the ground, dropped from a mob, or fished from a lake. No one ever needs to buy anything except for occasional armor repairs. And, no one ever needs to buy something from another player.
The economy that does exist is there for people too lazy to go out and find or build the stuff that they want. People offers goods for sale at, more or less, set prices and customers take it or leave it. The customer doesn’t really need the item because they can usually make it on their own if necessary and the seller doesn’t really need to sell it because there is so much free cash and resources available in the game that no one is hurting for cash.
That’s the way I approach the economy. I have a rough idea what each item is worth in terms of cash (relative to the Apprentice Smith purchase price and the typical auction price) and my time to find the raw materials. If I see someone foolishly selling the item for less, I’ll buy it. If they want more than that, I pass.
The economy in this game seems non-existent – there is a huge glut of cash and materials.
But there is an economy.
I go out and fish and farm to produce stuff that I think people will want to buy at a price that makes the effort worth my time. Then they use dram that they have earned to purchase those things. Then I use that dram to purchase other things that I will sell at a profit or use and enjoy. No one “needs” to buy my stuff… yet people do…so the demand exists.
Did you build your TV or buy it? Did you need it?
What difference does it make why consumers buy stuff? If they are buying stuff they are consumers.
If you prefer to fish and farm and produce your own goods you can of course do that, but that is still consumption of materials and production of materials that you will use to profit or enjoy.
Which stores IRL do you go to where they don’t have set prices? The dram and resources are abundant, but you still have to go and collect them, just like a job IRL.
You just gave a pretty good description of how the stock market works… NASDAQ would be proud.
Could I have your Halo?
I will give ya something for it.
Okay, so you go out and farm things that you can sell. That’s great. But, as I say, you set the price and then it’s take-it-or-leave-it. And, as I also say, no one is upset if it doesn’t sell at that price. The customer really didn’t need it and you really didn’t need to sell it.
Plus, there is no mechanism in the game for me to say to you, “I’ll only pay 900 for that fish.” There is no barter. In real life, I can usually speak to a manager of a store and work out a lower price for his goods that works for the both of us.
There is no sense of urgency in the game. Buying stuff from other players just speeds up your game a little bit, but it’s not really a big deal if it doesn’t happen. Neither player is stuck.
Now, I realize that it’s way too late in the process to be changing the way the economy works. Too many people are vested in the way the current system works and would just just as upset as you are. I just thought it would be fun to find a system that works more like real life.
Right. As the producer of goods I determine at which price I will sell them. I have no say in what others charge tho. If I set a price of 5k for a luck potion and 3 other sellers are charging between 2k and 4k I won’t sell many, so I have to watch the prices others sell for if I want to be successful and competitive in the games economy.
I have begun to question whether or not you understand what an economy is… and now I am starting to wonder if you understand the function of an auction. Many items in the game are sold thru auction. If there are items available without a set price you can make any offer you want, but if the price is set much higher than that the seller is unwilling to accept your offer and states that by setting a buyout. By setting a buyout price the seller is categorically stating that they are not interested in negotiation.
The “urgency” you mention is a simple manifestation of desire. If there is nothing you want enough to pursue then you won’t feel any urgency. That really has nothing to do with whether or not an economy exists in the game… There are plenty of things I am looking to obtain.
I am now 100% convinced that you are trolling me.
I am simply saying that I would like to see a vibrant economy that, more or less, reflects real life. In real life, there would be vendors that buy and sell products at market prices. This game has no vendors that sell anything except a few specialty items. And, the vendor that does buy things only offers insultingly low prices.
Yes, the auction house does try to address that concern, but, it seems to be, does a poor job. I scan the items at auction from time to time and I almost never see any active bidding on any items. Most items just sit there with no bids at all.
Of course, I can’t really tell that for sure because there is no feedback or log file. I don’t know what the final sales price was, how many bids there were, or who bought it. If I knew what the final sales price was, I could price my own goods accordingly. But, that information is not available, so I would just have to guess.
Or I don’t. The only time I use the auction house is to dump my stock of mutant dragons that didn’t turn out the right colors that I wanted. And, I can’t get squat for them since other players run around giving them away for free. Nothing else I’ve put up for sale has sold (and I do look over the auctions first and set a price about 10% lower than what I see).
As I say, the economy just barely limps along. I can deal with it because there is a limitless supply of free stuff in the game anyway, so I never need to buy anything.
My issue (and its not a bigge) with the current Auction system is the lack of pricing info.
Any dynamic market that moves with supply and demand has both Asks (Sale price) and Bids (Offers). Indeed Auctions have these dynamics with Bids and Reserve Prices.
A simple system is where I can as a seller :
See other similar items for sale, quantity and price (as we have today)
List my item for my chosen price (as we have today)
See the top X bids (quantity and price offered) by prospective buyers
As a Buyer I can:
See Item availability and price (as we have today)
Make a bid for the items I need if I do not choose to take one of the available sales offers (if there is one).
The effect this would have is that prices would standardise to a degree but supply and demand and the motivation of buyers and sellers would move prices .
In effect sellers (without lots of past experience) are guessing what price to set an item at if there are no other similar items for sale and they have no useful information to go on from other players.
Frankly I don’t think the auction house dramatically needs such a system but it would start to regularise pricing for items in the game…does that game need that…I’m not sure.
Another interesting change is that we would see ‘Market Depth’ or the volume of people selling an item or wanting to buy items. This could be very useful for those of us brewing potions or harvesting herbs and ore to show us what is in demand and what is over supplied at any time.
In effect…it would be more of a real market place.
Like I say, does the game really need this…not sure it does.
No you were saying there was basically no economy.
I am glad that you have changed your opinion of this.
I am a vendor. Market price is determined by vendors not assigned arbitrarily by some unknowable source.
This is a market economy, not a command economy. The value of items is determined by whatever the market will support. I was selling metal cogs 10 for 37,500 for weeks and doing fine with it. Then the snowman transmog came along and I bumped up my price to 10 for 45,000 because the demand was high enough that the market would support the increase. I would have gone 50,000 except that other players were selling at 5k per. If there were a vendor that sold minerals at a fixed price or a regulated price it would not be possible to play the market in this manner. If you don’t like the offers the NPC Vendors make… take your business elsewhere… I know I do!
You aren’t paying much attention to it if that is your takeaway. Pay particular attention to what happens to auction items that have > 1 hour remaining.
I don’t need a log because I prefer to do my own basic math and inventory management, but I wouldn’t be opposed to one. I am not opposed to any improvements to the existing economy. I am opposed to the ideas that the game has no existing economy and that the non-existent economy needs regulation.
I am not sure why this would be a problem in an economy in which there is a “huge glut of cash and materials.”
Mutant dragons are a common, easily producible commodity that exists with incredible surplus. That surplus effects their value. Try producing better stock and your profits will reflect your efforts.
As far as the other things you have offered and not sold, my suggestion would be to find and produce items which will sell… it sounds like you have already ruled a few out. Keep going, trial and error is a great way to learn!
If you find that the economics of the game are “limping” then I would suggest you consider your own actions within the economy.
Mishka made 3 million in 48 hours. He is a top tier player and well out of my league. Three million in 48 hours is exemplary and commendable…also beyond my ability… but his performance provides brilliant examples of both an economy that is not limping and the effect experience can have on personal performance in the market.
I am down here on a lower rung looking up from the dirt. I am happy when I make 350k with 2 days effort. At first my only goal was to unlock all the storage panes. Before I had finished that I found the odds and ends guy… and I had to have everything he offers. By the time I had all his offerings I had a pretty solid understanding of the economy in game and how to make it work. Now that Storage and Odds and Ends are outta the way I am looking for a Halo.
Earlier you mentioned that you had saved up 250k dram and used it as the foundation of your assertion that there was a glut of cash and resources. I hate to tell you this… and I mean no insult… but 250k is a paltry sum. It costs more than 3 times that to unlock your storage panes.
If you are interested in the economy I would suggest you start by unlocking the storage panes. It’s a good short term economic goal. If you are in a hurry to do that you’ll continue to experiment with the very active market in game until you find ways to increase your profit vs time ratio… or not… if the economy is too difficult or uninteresting to you to motivate you to avail yourself of its bounty… find another way or just keep playing and ignore it… eventually the dram will pile up… it will just take longer.
If you choose to continue to experiment with the markets it won’t be long before you know which items are in demand and which really are not. You’ll know which of those items require rare components and how to get those components even tho other people are out farming them 24 hours a day. You’ll start to make farming routes and learn how to fish more efficiently. You’ll learn which alchemical formulae will allow you to craft multiple items at once and which ones won’t. You’ll be able to estimate production time accurately. You’ll develop strategies to overcome people who undercut you without destroying the value of the offered items. The more time you spend playing the economy the more you will learn about it.
This brings me back to my original statement:
I am a player just like you. I am in no way exceptional. I respect the opinion you have formed based on your performance and experience. I like the economy but I wouldn’t mind improvements or expansions. The possibilities are limitless and you are right to advocate for whatever you like…
However, to say that the game has no economy or has a stagnant economy is unreasonable and untrue. If you want to perform better in the Orbus economy you can. All the tools are there.
…and if not, figure out how to make the long term quests pay. If there is a glut of dram in the game I would point to them as the culprit… not that I am complaining. 
Good luck man! If you keep at it you’ll get it. 
I think you are misunderstanding me in this game, Ken. I am not suffering. I am doing just fine for having only played for five weeks. I have 75+ of each rare fish and 40 of each rare potion and have brought two of my classes to Level 30. I’ve opened two of my panes and still have 125k in the bank and bred Brown dragons down to Spring Green dragons. I have figured out most parts of the game. I am not the best, but I’d say I’ve done pretty well.
At this point in any game I play, I begin looking at the game system itself and wondering how it could be improved. What problems did I have early on that could be addressed and made smoother or better understood? And one of the issues I had was that it was not obvious what the market price of each item should be. I horded things I didn’t need and sold stuff to the Smith that I shouldn’t have. A vendor that bought and sold goods at near-market prices would have given me the information that I needed to make wise choices. Or an auction log that shows the last dozen sales of each item. I think it would help a lot of people.
I can see that; but from where you are, since you’re doing well… … It seems like you want to pull the money ladder up behind you…
I get some people want more realistic things in their games, but I can only assume that there are far more who want games as a stress free break from reality. You can choose to run raids and high end shards to give yourself a challenge when you like, but you can’t choose to participate in the economy.
I think it would be cool if meals gave you a “Well Fed” buff that slightly increased every stat, but could only be eaten outside of combat. However, I think that meals shouldn’t be required to eat every day; instead you could get a small debuff or something if you don’t eat a meal for a while
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