Palidin: Sticky hammer throw

Bugs and Technical Issues
#1

Dear Support, when grabbing my hammer (Paladin) by holding the grip button I am not able to throw the hammer immediately afterwards by swinging the hammer and letting the grip button go.

In order to throw the hammer you need to let go of the grip button every time you either grab or catch your hammer, then grip the button again swing the hammer and then let go of the grip button.

This is totally unintuitive as in the real world when you grab something you cannot just let go of it hoping it will stick to your hand.

Looking at the mechanics I do not see any reason not to change this behavior to all players to grab the hammer and continue to hold the grip button until the player choses to let go of the hammer by either placing it back on your back or throwing it by THEN releasing the grip button.

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#2

This isn’t an Orbus problem, I think if anything it’s the limitation of controllers as a whole.

Where as yes, you should be able to catch it and throw it immediately again by just letting go of the grip button, remember that your weapons automatically stick to your hands after equipping them. Instead of making the player continuously hold grip.

Because of this, if we apply the logic that you should be able to release the grip button and let your hammer be thrown again, it would trap you in a constant state of butter fingers. And you would never be able to pick up your hammer without dropping it. Considering that you need to hold grip to recall your hammer to your hand.

TL;DR: It’s just something you’re gonna have to get used to. Unfortunately.

(Although! If you want to achieve a similar idea with the limited controls, you should let go of your grip as soon as your hammer starts floating close. And catch it without your grip being held. Your hammer will still be caught, but it leaves the grip button unpressed. Allowing for a quick rethrow.)

1 Like
#3

I play Zenith (BM-Tank) as well and there the mechanics work fine with the same controller. Not sure about the butter fingers as it takes more effort to release the grip button than to press and hold it as part of gripping the controller grip.

When going through the Oculus tutorials gripping and holding onto something is taught but Orbus has implemented to opposite.

It almost seems like a relict of an earlier implementation - your arm becomes the weapon.

In your example my hammer should never leave my hand but if you just hold the hammer in front of you and grip the grip button twice your hammer will drop to the ground.

edit: When catching the hammer, then releasing the grip button and gripping it again immediately afterwards I can continue playing the paladin for minutes (or longer) and will be able to throw the hammer the next time I need to. So this is more a SW programming issue.

#4

If I’m being fair to the game, It was made back when VR was just starting to get popular. And comparing it to a game that’s come out months prior is a bit unfair.

Honestly, looking more into this with what you have explained I can see your point better now. And I agree. It does seem like a bit of an oversight, or small bug that ended up affecting the Pali. And I’m not sure how anyone (to my knowledge when typing this) hasn’t talked about this yet.

I think it’s because most players get used to the small jank like that. And it doesn’t really seem to bother. Regardless, I hope someone more qualified gets to you rather than I^^

#5

Looking into it, this was actually intended behavior for the time when it was implemented several years ago. Usually we’re pretty cautious about changing base mechanics since people have gotten so accustom to how things work, so we try to be mindful of that. This is good feedback though. I would be interested in hearing more thoughts on it from the community.

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#6

I’d say that’s about fair. But honestly it seems like it could be a good change to make Pali feel more fluid in what they do. And would minorly affect the way that experienced Pali players use their hammer.

And thank you, Jake, for looking into it. Can always count on you. :pray:

5 Likes
#7

As a developer, I would add that to reduce impact on current habbits and player base, something like this could be added as an Option. You may even decide to make it the default option for new players. But you’d also be showing loyalty to the existing user base by not messing with how they play. They can try it, but are not forced into it. Hopefully a win-win - both moving the controller mechanics into the future, and keeping loyal players happy. Cheers!

6 Likes
#8

I agree with this. It took me a long time to train myself to stop holding the grip button while hitting with my hammer in order to work around this. It still feels awkward after a year, and I tank a lot.

Intuitively, when you hold your weapon, you want a solid grip, which means holding that button down.

3 Likes
#9

I’m very much used to the “not holding grip” to hold your hammer. HOWEVER

Do you know how much it sucks trying to do an overhead throw, but gripping at the wrong time means putting the hammer away?

Of course you do. We’ve all done it.

I’m 100% in favor of it being an option like @Sandra_W mentioned. That’s a phenomenal suggestion :slight_smile:

5 Likes
#10

just dont squeeze the hell out of your controllers. i have no problems with this whatsoever and I tank all the time.

this isn’t zenith. this game is skill based.

3 Likes
#11

I’m on Index, where the grip button isn’t actually meant to be pressed for extended periods of time - grabbing actions are intended to be done by using the touch controls, but because Orbus uses a control scheme based on the Vive controllers, those are not used at all.

Holding Grip for a long time tires out my hands, and I blame my left grip button breaking on fishing. Having to squeeze the controller all the time when holding my hammer would be very uncomfortable, unless touch controls are properly implemented.

(On that topic, please let me use my weapon hand for moving when I have my wand out)

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#12

Do you not use steamvr bindings? You can change grip from grab to touch grip and that fixes the problem

#13

I remember thinking about doing that when I started out, but I believe I didn’t try it, can’t remember why now. Probably because of how many actions require a grip button tap, not holding it down, and I figured it would be weird.

#14

Remember there are multiple platforms/hardware though. Just like @Sandra_W suggests, the best solution would probably be to have everything orbus related configurable inside of orbus. Both in terms of ease of use as well as respect for both old and new player habits :slight_smile:

#15

For sure constantly gripping is going to cramp index paladins hands for people who play it alot… I would personally want to keep it how it is.

I personally also had the experience that the oculus grip is cutting my finger if I have to constantly grip it too.

3 Likes
#16

Thank you for checking on all the things @Jake_E!!

Am very happy with how it works currently.

I have played both games, and much prefer the way Orbus does it to Zenith’s method.

1 Like
#17

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