Patch 13.05 May 4th 2021-- Healer/Tank Initial Balance Pass

Okay so TLDR: Any boss hitting you with 1 pip or less, then stun lock. Otherwise do not stunlock.

Okay the thought here of the flaw of the stunlock encouragement for more aggro:

  • Stunlocking a boss will on average gets a mob stop hitting you for 2 seconds. (give or take. Depending on someone removing the stun, or no-one ever)
  • A stun does “7382” aggro normally. (relative number for the others)
  • A pip does “11356” aggro normally.
  • Some medium strength bosses will give guarantee 2 pip every time they hit. (there are way stronger and weaker ones). (Don’t forget crits exist too)
  • An enemy hits once every 2 seconds.

So stunlocking 5 pips will loose you around 2 pips in this example.

having the pip stunlock now do double aggro will give you:
(7382x2) x 5 = 73820 aggro

While not stunlocking will give you:
11356 x (5+2) = 79492 aggro

Any medium strong boss will give you more aggro by NOT stunning them. Because not stunning will give you 79492 aggro instead of 73820. If enemies get stronger it is worth even more not stunning.


TLDR: Tiles update for Bard Please.

I would really like to see tiles updated for Protection, Inspiration, Defense, Speed in an update. These four instruments currently give 0 tiles.

The instruments that give tiles currently are Instrument of Justice, Instrument of Harm, Instrument of Gentle Healing and Instrument of Cure Wounds.

These have sort of been the “meta” as other instruments haven’t been working. As people are going to be using a more diverse set of instruments it would be great if there could be tiles that go with.

Note that most of the tilesets require that you have at least 3 of these instruments because both healing instruments give the same tiles and there is even some overlap with the damage instruments.

Without overhauling everything, I would love for these 4 instruments to at least give any sort of tiles. I’m happy to get creative with tiles but its hard starting from 0.


Is anyone else having issues proccing the o tile with gentle healing after the patch?

for bard sorry

I just watched a bard and they had it proc under runesight and tiles proc.

This procs for gentle healing, harm, or justice I believe.

I finailly try the warrior the damages is good now overall

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :yum:

Just ran 3 Crypt 15s, with 3 different Bard healers (one with +3 mallets) and 3 different Tanks.I think Bard is finally in a good place to run content :slight_smile:


Im just waiting for a warrior buff that actually does something in end game content. :frowning_face:


I understand the want to take away pallys ability to slingshot, but decreasing it by this much is ridiculous. Not only does it go somewhere between 20-30 ft, it also instantly comes back to your hand with no travel time. So if I wait just too long I have to throw my hammer again. I was originally able to throw my hammer really far without the slingshot method and this helped with gathering resources and getting from place to place. And if I can originally throw the hammer that far since the launch of reborn. Then why would you take that away now? since this isn’t the final patch and things can be changed, please take this distance checker away and if you really want to keep people from slingshotting then consider adding a trajectory checker.

  • IE, If the hammers trajectory gets changed a certain after leaving the hand a certain amount, then make the hammer travel (not instantly teleport) back to the hand with no added acceleration.
  • The hammer also originally had a timer on it. So why not split it so the PVE had the old timer (I don’t have the timings for it) and the PVP timer is shorter (2.5-3 seconds).
  • I understand that this is a patch for the tanks and healers but splitting the PVP and PVE damage for all classes would be a good idea in general (I would like to not get one shot by scoundrels and rangers while on a pally in Full +5) (Like Splitting the Damage and keeping the current damage For PVE and using the damage numbers from before the DPS rework for PVP).

It procs if I have harm selected but not without it even with gentle healing pulse for me any additional info would be helpful. Thank you.

Yes yes yes. We should not be punished for playing the intended way and only be able to throw 20-30 feet. I agree with the changes listed as just reducing the throw distance is a trash idea and makes the entire mechanic pointless.


Separate PVP and PvE please, Pally hammer is a problem in PVP but not in PvE. Same with other classes.


If this is true then it will be somewhat useful with aggro generation on boss 2 of ancient temple (MistKeeper) when using one stun in your pally rotation to have enough time for your shield to come back up for tank buster and keep aggro. This being said its not better then what we already have with pip generation and I think pally needs a better way to keep aggro. Maybe using part of the damage we take from hits as aggro, similar to how warrior’s shield works (Yes I know the two classes have different ways of getting aggro but but both tanks shouldn’t be having issues with healers that go all Rambo and decide to bounce everything off their turrets and take all aggro away and keep it, I just feel useless at that point)

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Thank you for adding this in.

We tested the hammer throw distance in the Citadel Raid today.

  1. The hammer now despawns in the air on the way to the adds. This is too short.

  2. It is critical for a party’s tank to be able to get to the adds before the DPS. If the hammer despawns on the way there, this will cost time in dungeons (either because of respawned re-throws, or multiple pip-wasting** shorter hammer hops).

** It costs pips to teleport; having to hammer-throw more than once means the DPS will have to wait for pip regen before they can start hitting.

  1. Top-level tanks have spent a great deal of time practicing (and actual irl physical conditioning/training to build the muscles necessary) to be able to throw the hammer as far as possible in one go.

This would be like adding in a mage spell per-minute limit in PVE because PVP mages can spell spam. It would hobble the class.

  1. Hammer throwing is a skill, capping it like this discourages attempts to do better.

While I am aware that people do not like rubber-banding, this is going to hurt PVE.

Please give them back their shield for players attacks, there are zero PVP warriors because of the shield issue.

We have learned to stand out of our DPS’s way in PVE, I promise! :joy_cat:

Would it be possible to give them a rez? (Something like sacrificing both mallets at the same time.)

One of the reasons Musky is picked over Bard in end-game is because Musky has a rez, and bard does not.


OMG How did I forget about this!!! Yes please give Bards a rez, please!!!


Maybe instead of increasing aggro on just the tank classes, why not decrease aggro generation for all classes except for the tank classes? This way the tanks can keep aggro better then musky bouncing everything off their turret and other classes hitting 70K-130K DPS and taking aggro.

I agree with you here, the Warrior is the one that needs the most love when it comes to tank swapping mid-fight.

Warrior needs a boost to their horn or a burst-ago combo of some kind for tank swapping.

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Initial thoughts on Bard:

I ran 3 Crypt 15s with a different Bard and different Tank on each one (Paladin AND Warrior). We did Crypt because we had the shards and it seems to be the dungeon we screw up the most on.

We completed all three on time. While it didn’t feel as “safe” as having a Musketeer, and there was a bit more communication involved, the fact that we were able to get other end-game Bards able to successfully heal the shard was wonderful.

Regarding specific changes:
Song Sword: I don’t see this being used much. Having 5% damage increase ALL THE TIME vs a 10% increase for 3 seconds every 15-20 seconds isn’t really justifiable.
Protection: We used this through most of the dungeon. While the shielding aspect is relatively low (7655 damage with my Bard), the fact that it’s persistent is very nice. We kept this going throughout the trash fights, and dropped it for bosses because they’re just going to hit too hard to make 7k matter one way or the other.
Inspiration: Holy smokes. Holy smokes. I LOVE this. Not as a Bard (okay, kinda as a Bard) but because when I play Ranger I stack Wisdom like crazy. This buff to Inspiration is amazing, and with a Ranger in the group, definitely justifies dropping damage instruments or even Protection.
Crescendo buffs: MUCH needed, and VERY much appreciated. Gentle Healing Crescendo brought a Shaman from nearly unbent to full health, which saved her life in the shard :slight_smile:

I haven’t done much number testing yet or ANYTHING with non-Bards, but again, from my initial runs, this looks like it brought Bard back into the fray.

But +1 on the resurrection aspect :smiley:


Something that might work this out would be adding in a Level 25 Talent.

Left Tree: (7382 agro per pip) stunlocking agro reduction, in exchange for more pip generation when receiving damage

Right Tree: (12,764 agro per pip) stunlocking agro boost, keep current pip generation from receiving damage

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