Patch 13.05 May 4th 2021-- Healer/Tank Initial Balance Pass

[Åsmund_T]

@Koda

Then why does dps even matter?

The DPS change was mostly to help make it easier to complete quests/missions in the overword as a solo warrior. (quote below)

@Outlander_Robert

Warrior’s aggro retention and overall tankiness seems to be in a good place, but like musketeer was lacking some offensive ability to allow solo overworld grinding.

It takes more than “your average warrior” to complete high shards, same goes for paladin. It takes skill and practice, maybe a bit more for a warrior, but you can’t really balance it around anything but the top warriors, otherwise those top warriors would become OP.

@ElSegador

I would agree on certain bosses but as far as ancient temple or citadel are concerned there are very few warriors regardless of skill and experience that can complete them.

Mist keeper, sure, it’s not exactly easy to do as a warrior, but it is 100% doable, just takes a lot more skill. Ancient guardian isn’t really a problem at all tho.
Most of citadel is pretty easy on warrior tho, not sure what you’re on about there.

[Koda]

@Åsmund_T

It takes more than “your average warrior” to complete high shards, same goes for paladin

I concur, yet if you take two players of equal skill which one is gonna have a harder time?
Idk how many high shards I’ve had to swap off tank cause it’s just that much simpler for a Paladin and the healers.
Granted a lot of it is team composition, but the fact still remains

[Koda]

@stone_r

I think it’s like you have to be a good warrior to be well good but you can be a bad pally but still do good, warrior just has more of a skill gap

^Exactly!! Not saying it can’t be done, I just feel it’s a way of saying “meh, stop trying to get better at warrior and go be a mediocre Paladin with same results”

[stone_r]

True but I’m pretty sure warrior is a bit better at keeping agro tho

[anon39269190]

What i’m saying is very few times will you see dual warriors tanks in a citadel. Specifically though I mean Sehotep if your a warrior you’re not going to be eating the portal orbs because one mistake and your whole team is dead. And in third phase if your in hell as a warrior with the chaos that’s going on caster wise and with no way to manage the aggro on ranged adds the balance between paladin and warrior is laughable. I play both in all content is it possible to complete the content with warriors sure it is but this is discussion about balancing and it is clear that it is unbalanced whether you agree or not. And a challenge is something I desired and the end game content should not be made to easy that you have 0 effort. having said that warrior mains are and will continue to be excluded from content because people would rather have a paladin because they are more forgiving versatile and able to utilize the battlefield 100% better than a warrior regardless of skill level.

[anon39269190]

My last point is this just allowing warrior shield to block ranged attacks would solve multiple issues you would have aggro retention from shield hits you would better defense against missile based attacks while keeping just about everything else the exact same as it is now and since your shield doesnt last forever you would still have to put in the maximum effort. If nothing else changes thats my suggestion and opinion as important.

[aRkker]

Actually Song Shield affected them before the crescendo healed them. As soon as you used your crescendo, it applied the buff to those who were going to get healed by the orbs, shielding them from any further damage before the heal arrived, which made it very very nice in comparison to the current shielding mechanic. Just a little correction there.

Bard was never unusable for high level content even before the changes, and I personally don’t really understand why the cure woulds crescendo was buffed because never in my however-long-Reborn-has-been-out years of playing Bard have I not healed the tank to full from the brink of death with one of those crescendos, so it feels like a little bit of a waste to me.

The gentle healing crescendo buff however is very welcome, it was quite underwhelming prior to the current version, which feels great but not stupid overpowered

[Vasilia_F]

@ElSegador

Sehotep if your a warrior you’re not going to be eating the portal orbs because one mistake and your whole team is dead. And in third phase if your in hell as a warrior with the chaos that’s going on caster wise and with no way to manage the aggro on ranged adds the balance between paladin and warrior is laughable

it is possible to survive as a warrior and tank the portal orbs when the team is in the portal but to survive it you need the second muskie to stay with you to heal you on the 4 or 5 portal orb when the shied is down or take healing pots to give you more health. Also it is possible to keep agro with the mobs and the boss with a warrior and pally at Sehotep. For tanking with the pally at sehotep I go first as a warrior and when the pally have agro and when I need to switch I wait for the pally to empty their pips so when I horn I can have agro when sehotep hits my shied and I wont lose agro after

@ElSegador

people would rather have a paladin because they are more forgiving versatile and able to utilize the battlefield 100% better than a warrior regardless of skill level

Very true I was ask to help with a raid to tank and I told them I need a healer in the last phase of sehotep and then ask the other dps to go pally insted of me playing warrior

[Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeshka]

Oooh that’s interesting, I didn’t know it worked before it healed! Wish I had known haha

[Pherosis]

@Vasilia_F

Very true I was ask to help with a raid to tank and I told them I need a healer in the last phase of sehotep and then ask the other dps to go pally insted of me playing warrior

Interesting, we have found that warriors survive better (when going in as the only tank) in the 3rd hell than pallys tend to. You could have offered to go in instead of staying behind for the orbs.

[Pherosis]

@ElSegador

There is also near zero aggro retention on magical based Mobs. Warriors just grab the melee Adds and sit in corner waiting for the ranged mobs to die with little else to do but shield bash occasionally and use the horn for a small shield and a temporary reprieve.

This is good as is.

Tanks are supposed to fight the melee and leave the ranged mobs for their team to kill/dodge.

The reason we tank the melee is because our teams cannot (for the most part) dodge those attacks.

Neither pallys or warriors can hold, or are supposed to be holding ranged/magic adds.

[NotScott]

@Pherosis

Neither pallys or warriors can hold, or are supposed to be holding ranged/magic adds.

Pallies can hold aggro against ranged. I do it all the time. You just need to be really a perfectionist. Warrior can not.

[Pherosis]

@NotScott

Pallies can hold aggro against ranged. I do it all the time. You just need to be really a perfectionist.

lol, why am I not surprised that you have a strategy for how to do it.

Why would the same strategy not work for warriors?

[NotScott]

Warriors get aggro benefit from getting hit by their shield. Ranged mobs do not hit their shield. Provoke alone can not win enough aggro to keep the ranged mob (on strong dps) + it keeps walking away.

Paladin on the other hand gets aggro by generating pips. Any enemy can give it pips. Ranged mobs bolt and poison the pally for more pips. The paly groundslams to keep all mobs. And when the paly sees all the dps focus on the ranged mob, the paly can change their strategy by using more single pips on the ranged mob. If you ground slam everything you won’t keep aggro from the very good dps. But selectfully using the right book on the right ranged mob and you keep it.

[anon39269190]

I hold ranged mobs as a paladin. I can even grab them as a warrior without using a horn. It doesn’t change the fact that paladin can eat, absorb, heal through and infinite stun/interrupt in all content. Warriors have next to nothing in that department aside from just sitting there and spamming provoke and your occasional shield bash. And warrior puts extra strain and stress on the whole group. and because there is not many endgame warriors most healers I talk to are nervous when they have to heal me as a warrior. I’m not sure who is playing warrior on high shards with bad affixes and saying “This is a joke” but I can guarantee you paladins do all the time. People do not want me playing warrior when I can infinite stun during a boss fight with paladin and make any sort of mechanic messups fixable. Warriors you make one mistake and you’re dead on a lot of content. Now paladins can hold aggro just as well as a warrior while having a ridiculous amount more of survivability.

[NotScott]

@Mathieu_D

Regarding Paladin, we’ll take another look at the throwing range or the snapping to hand behavior. If someone has a video of their own normal throw running into the problem repeatedly we’d also love to take a look at it.

Did anyone had the time to do this?

[stone_r]

I’m planning on doing it today

[Pherosis]

Took some videos this morning, need to parse them down to size now.

[hiurpwr]

This is a common problem I have playing musky. A non quest 2 player should be able to see further and heal targets when successfully making contact. If I can see them and I can hit them, they should get healed.

[Pherosis]

I think this is an issue for quest players as well. The heal distance is well under their render limit.