That exactly what i meant. They are not only too good to not have, but the game is almost unplayable without them. As such they should just be passive abilities that the class has by default, and not talents.
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I second this whole heartedly. Good stuff here, I’m super glad you made this thread and kept up with it.
I’m sure we could keep going, and I definitely will if you want to haha. I’m quite positive we could keep countering each other for days. But I think at heart we’re in the same place, and we’ve gotten a lot of great points out which we’ll see the effects of soon. So, time get ready for the next book in the series once we hear about changes in the works!
Thank you very much my friend, it’s been a pleasure!
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Absolutely! If you have more good ideas, post em.
I’ve been taking suggestions/ideas from the comments and adding them to/changing the main post in order to have the meat more easily accessible, for easier reading. The comments still provide a lot of important context, but it should be a little easier to reference now. @Riley_D
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How about a talent to increase orb splash range from making longer shots on targets? No effect for hitting ground. I have no idea for a counter talent though.
It wouldn’t do much in boss fights though. Maybe in raids, to hit both tanks simultaneously without them having to hold hands. DPS wise it doesn’t help outside of trash.
So not great. I’m just posting it now for the sake of helping churn more ideas that would be better.
Im prepping for another post i want to make about general gameplay mechanics, and what is fun for each class. We definitely touched on the things related to musky and somewhat to tanking in this thread, and ill try to move some of that to the new post. I did want to comment about boss 4 though…
I thought boss 4 expert was one of the most fun and challenging fights in the game. Figuring out the mechanics and the comparatively insane group timing and communication to hit the bells (“bells soon”) was nuts. Figuring out to use weakness orb ( i think it was Discordia who thought of it) as a timer for the bells was genius… and then, later i would join pug groups and not understand what strat they were doing, and they would make condescending remarks about how they like to do the fight as it was intended implying that because we used kiting, we were somehow cheating. Meanwhile these pug groups were totally skipping the bell mechanic all together (we later adopted this strat for pet/farm runs) The strat was so hard that i dont think most of the other groups could even fathom what we were doing, they just heard kiting and assumed we were somehow cheesing it. That fight was insane, and if anyone considers the kiting to be cheese, it was still the hardest fight in the game, cheese or not.
I think the level of ingenuity, and precision required to complete that fight, should be a model for all other (boss) fights (Ok thats a little much, it was quite tedius, i wouldnt want all boss fights to be that way), and as far as im concerned kiting is a totally valid mechanic. Kiting is in pretty much every MMO, its not a new tactic. If thats all it takes to defeat a boss, then that clearly was not a well designed fight to begin with (that was not the case on boss 4).
The more important part of what im getting at, is that removing the ability to kite, is removing a tool used to figure out and defeat enemies. Taking that out of our kit, limits the options we have to deal with mechanics. While i dont necessarily have a problem with kiting being removed from the game (and that certainly isnt the only, or even a big problem), they diddnt add in anything to replace it, and the fights, overall, have become less complex, and IMO, dull. I’d rather have insane fights that force us to think, communicate, and require every bit of advantage that we can figure out how to bend into the game, rather than straight forward fights where the mechanics are all clearly laid out for us (although that can be fun too).
I just think all the currently implemented fight mechanics have led to an overall nerf in difficulty, and more importantly fun (with some exceptions that id like to cover in another thread). Sure, the content needed to be more accessible to the general population, thats fine… but its currently lost most of its top end.
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To be fair you are comparing the second-to-last Raid boss mechanics to the mechanics of a set of “starter” dungeons. If you compare the mechanics of the current dungeons to those of the original set of dungeons in the original game (Jungle, Cave, etc.) they are far more complex and challenging than those were.
As with the original game, we will have the Raids come out, which will feature significantly more complex mechanics that the current dungeons, as well as another set of dungeons and another Raid after that, which will be even more complex as well and all designed for end-game players. I agree that if the current dungeon mechanics were all that was available, that would not be nearly challenging enough 
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Don’t get me wrong, I understand that the game just came out and this is not the end game content, but I’m not just comparing to raid mechanics. That post was specifically referencing kiting for that specific fight. (Because that was what I was responding to) But you will see that earlier in this thread I mention the squiddy fight as another example… And I could even give examples from jungle. But these critiques don’t tell the whole story. I believe there are things which are definitely better in reborn in regards to fight mechanics. Interrupt mechanics, and the ability to dodge projectiles for instance. But I think the musketeer point of view (of fight mechanics) doesn’t necessarily always coincide with other classes point of view, on each of these mechanics, which is why I said I wanted to make a new thread about it, so I could better detail that. …
I’m very excited for raids btw.
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Musketeers definitely need some attention;
- Musketeers cannot bring enough utility to groups any more to be as viable as a Bard.
- Musketeers need some boost to their passive healing abilit(ies).
- Musketeer gameplay needs a little more dynamism for it to be fun like some of the other classes.
Speaking bluntly, we do not bring musketeers to our 5 man groups as often because they deal less damage, cannot give a damage boost and musketeers cant keep up with the healing requirements with so much moving in all the encounters honestly… (where as a Bard can)
It needs a rework…
I like Adult’s suggestions and I am excited to see what Riley does with them.
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