tanked the dungeons a few more times today. There’s definitely less speed required now, but it’s still too much. I feel like I’m putting in 1.5x too much effort as opposed to the 3x more effort of yesterday.
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Today was the first day I had a chance to play the new patch so I dont know how this compares in regards to the monday swing speeds. I threw my arm out playing today. After a couple hours of only half my hits registering I thought my system had stopped tracking me because I could get next to no upswings. I was practically jumping into my upswing. I couldnt kill most mobs with a lower level than me in a one on one because none of my combos would register. The side to side is fine for me its just the upswing that needs some work. Really last weeks system is still how I preffer to swing my sword. Still love this game but I might just be switching classes now.
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Played about 4-5 hours today, and It does feel a ton better then Monday, I am still having issues getting the speed fast enough for upswings, but otherwise everything feels much better, could be tweaked a little more but at least now I dont feel like I need to swing for the fences for each piece of the combo.
My thoughts on this is that while today’s patch improved it, its still subpar from before.
Not only are upward swings requiring nearly the same amount of effort as before the patch, warriors are still exerting a great amount of force just to land their swings. And this isn’t with better hitboxes which could be improved on certain bosses like Sentry.
Also the changes to make it easier to hit targets while inside them are not working at all. Ive tested this on many mobs and bosses and the result is that its so inconsistent to hit enemies inside you that its simply not even worth attempting compared to repositioning. And nobody is attempting to tank inside a boss so I am not sure if these changes to address that particular issue is worth exhausting people’s energy as warrior. VR is already a workout and hearing about people having very sore arms and taking days off seems to clash with the spirit of making class fun.
Examples
Sentry boss requires you to stand in pretty specific places to land the provoke. Different angles also change that sweet spot. Furthermore standing TOO close but not inside the boss will make all your swings turn into horizontal attacks. Standing too far away and the vertical swing cannot connect because the windup starts too far from the sweet spot.
And this is aside from the AOE mechanic which actually hits you if you are outside the AOE box but standing directly behind the boss. I know you said you fixed the AOE for some of the wilds enemies but the Sentry boss seems to have this problem.
Another example is the fox enemy who’s hitbox is pretty low to the ground. Not only are you forced to factor a fast swing speed in, you also need to adjust the vertical starting point to almost behind your body to hit the fox. And if you are in the middle of the fox, you can forget about your swings even making sense due to the Z axis. It becomes trial and error.
So yeah, my two concerns with this NEW system: One is that the swing speed required is too exhausting. The second is that the hitboxes still need to be improved or the tolerance of where a swing needs to start and end needs to be improved when connecting to count for the combo.
And of course, improved hitboxes would be swell too. I feel like for a VR game and sword play, we should expect a bit of exercise. In a situation however when a warrior is expected to swing their sword thousands of times a day it becomes a bit extreme to require them to swing with this much force repeatedly. What about kids who might not have that kind of endurance? Older players? I’d rather each class be “easy to play” and “hard to master” in a sense.
I hope that you guys will reconsider the purpose of this redesign of the warrior swing mechanic and even roll it back just to see what people think about it on the new content. At least until you guys can come up with new ideas to improve the system as a whole.
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The Sentry hit box is terrible, and once locked on, the awful thing decides to reposition. Uggh.
Made a go of warrior yesterday, fought everything from spiders, to swine, to the giant monster swine past the burning wood. So high, normal, low-slung, and the flying dragons before them. Literally all of them were easier to land combos on than any day prior since I began playing orbus a few weeks ago. It’s still a pretty good workout to make your hits land consistently. In terms of functionality the current schema is superior to the old one hands down. I still wouldn’t cry if the swing speed came down a bit, but I could play it where it is now. Using Samsung Odyssey just in case the HMD/Controllers are relevant.
Can someone help me understand something, It sounds like Riley_D is saying there is only one issue when I see two:
I assumed that the hitbox issues and the upward swing issues are separate (but yes they are connected in a way)
Hitbox problems: Sometimes you hit the hitbox sometimes you miss it, regardless if your swing was adequate (proper speed and strength)
Upward swing issue: Requires way more force and speed than the regular side to side swings since yesterday patch. Makes playing really difficult, makes it hard to do actual combos and is very exhausting.
now combine both problems and now you have an even bigger one, but am I crazy to think that these are two separate issues and not just one?
They’re both related to the detection of when a sword hit has occurred, and a part of that detection is determining what direction the swing was happening for combo purposes.
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ah thank you Riley, I wasn’t sure, its hard to imagine the mechanics when you aren’t a programmer or cant think like one. Can you let us know if the upward swing will be revisited soon?
It’s literally what I’ve been working on all morning. I should have an update later this morning.
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You sir are a scholar and a gentleman, thank you, this made my day!
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This means a lot. Thank you for tackling the issues.
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I dunno, I was having no problem at all as a Warrior tanking or dps’ing Sentry. The hitbox was fine IMO. I can put up a little video showing how its done if you need it.
I don’t think the swing speed is the problem.
I tried testing how slow I could swing and still get the detection. It’s actually pretty slow. The problem I found was that when I tried left-swing then right-swing, the right-swing would often not register.
I’m wondering if the bug here is that it has to register one hit before it would accept the swing for the next.
It seems to me that for a swing to register, it has to make a trip to the server and back. I notice that a swing has a small lag, about the same as network latency. Sometimes, I will swing multiple times and it won’t register as a swing until it makes that client-server-client round trip. Then, often, I will get multiple to register at a time.
However, now it seems like I have to wait for a swing to register before my next swing will be accepted.
It’s something I noticed early on playing Warrior, but with the hit-box detection, I could work with it, slowing down my combos. Now, though, it seems to take a different rythm and speed. If I have a fast network, it seems just fine and I get all my hits. When I notice network lag, it seems that the swings simply don’t register.
WARRIORS!!
Test the minimum swing speed. It’s actually pretty slow. I think there’s something else going on here.
Its weird how everyone is affected differently, for me left and right swings work perfectly, regardless if I swing from left to right or right to left and vice versa. It the upward swings that don’t register at all (maybe one of ten) and like yourself I have a really strong cable connection (60dl 30up) with 25 ms ping average at all times.
anyway I am looking forward to the changes and I hope they will make others want to play this class as, lord knows we need more warriors.
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Im glad there is a lot of discussion going on here!
However, since it is clear this is not a bug and has spiraled more into a suggestion/critique thread I would be ok with it being closed and moving the discussion to one of the other open threads about warrior suggestions.
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Arick_S we dont know yet if its a bug or a “undocumented feature” and until its fixed, it would easier to have one thread going instead of having multiple ones?
As noted in the Patch Thread, there’s a new patch out now which adjusts the hit detection so it should be much more reliable at detecting upward swings, and I also lowered the speed required to register a strike just a tad more. I think it’s in a pretty good place now, but let me know what you all find in your own testing.
If you have been playing just now, be sure you fully restart your Steam client to force it to update.
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I just tried out some fighting and it is insanely hard to kill anything. I need to swing my sword almost as fast as I can and the hit detection is super frustrating, and not with only upswings anymore.
The warrior swing speed feels perfect now!! Awesome work Riley and I really appreciate you taking the time to hear out the community and push out updates this fast. Amazing job.
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