If every raid that gets put out has a Normal and a Hard and every dungeon has 1-10 shards, there is balancing that has to get done both ways (for low-tier and high-tier guilds).
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Donāt you want difficult content? If everything that gets released is made so that everyone can complete it no matter how good they are at the game, then the game would be boring. Having a challenge is what makes players get better at the game to overcome those challenges.
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Do I want difficult content? Yes.
Do I also want normal mode raid to be scaled so low-tier players can do it with a little practice? Yes.
Are these two things incongruous? No. We can have both. We can also add infinite scaling as J recommended in a different thread.
Edit: showing that the top 5 guilds could blast away through Normal mode raid while carrying devs is not a helpful demonstration because it will appear as if the content is far too easy. It might be easy for the top guilds, but normal raid is quite challenging for everyone else. Do the same on hardmode? Absolutely, because thatās supposed to be challenging even for top tier guilds. If you guys blast through it while carrying a dev or two, only a couple weeks post-release, that means the content was not scaled right.
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This is my millionth time reposting this quote, but it seems that you are either ignoring it all together, or you are reading it and not considering the benefits of the devs playing with end game players. The people complaining here are going to ruin something that would benefit the game for no good reason. Robert has already said that he would run non-guilded raids, so I donāt know why you are still arguing.
you donāt understand your own point 
your not benefiting the community, your just benefiting yourself. you making it so you get content for just the ātop 5ā guilds
Why not both? These are all great points. I think that the game would be greatly benefited by the devs running some high end content with our high end guilds. The game looks very different to different groups and we each have different focuses. I also think that a newer group and a mixed level group run would be great and useful too.
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Alright so Iām just going to put my opinion into this discussion about this game as a whole and as an mmorpg.
Successful mmorpgs need endgame content that is challenging. As a player whoās been in top guilds/top player in mmorpgs to just playing 1 hour or less every day or just getting on and just chatting with friends and maybe doing a dungeon or so in another, Iād like to give my feedback with eyes of a new>casual>midcore>hardcore player.
Most mmorpgs have overwhelming content for new players. Thereās so many things to do, and they all get progressively hard. Few examples: Tera with its multitude with dungeons, Ms2 with its leveling dungeons, blade and soul with its low level dungeons.
Hereās how I see game content for newer players in orbus:
scaled dungeons.
This helps newer players get familiarized with dungeons in orbus and it does a good job imo.
Casual players:
Casual players tend to just enjoy the game but tend to know a lot more about the game, and most often then not usually can hit the level cap pretty easily (unless itās like in maplestory 1).
In orbus:
Casual players can queue for lv 30 dungeons, or do low level shards, and do battle grounds decently.
Midcore players:
This is where many players fall when they want to clear content but canāt dedicate a lot of time. IN maplestory 2, normal raids that have been released helped these players and casual players able to gear up quicker/better to endgame standards. I believe that normal raids in orbusvr is a great spot for midcore players.
Hardcore players:
This is where the most active players end up falling on. In ms2, I played since early access, geared up as much as I can, and joined a guild with the same mindset, and when Raids (then changed to hardmode) got released, we a hardcore guild DIDNāT clear. We had 3 groups of players who were all hardcore and best players in the server for NA standards and none of the groups could clear. After a day of failing we called off the raid. Only lionheart could clear within the first few minutes of raid release. (They were a korean-played guild that already knew how to do everything.) We decided it would be best to stack the best players into one group, and I barely made it into that group and we cleared on day 2-3 while failing over and over before, and barely making it.
Now this took MONTHS of preperation beforehand and it was this tough.
How can we replicate this kind of hardship and hard content in game?
Well players can improve their dps by having maximized gear, and by practicing their class to the full potential. We have hardmode raid in orbusvr and some of the bosses are fitting, while others not so much but we have something for the āhardcoreā players.
I donāt think however that content meant for endgame, should be tuned for the average player. It should be that hardcore players clear content with a bit of struggle in fast time if they go hard enough, and casual>normal>midcore clearing the content with enough due time.
I believe that yes there should be content for every category, and it can seem like hardcore/endgame content is the only content being pushed, but if itās progressively harder, that means one day shard 10s should progressively feel like itās for midcore, or even normal one day.
Many mmorpgs have new content that gets progressively harder and harder, and because of that the older content just gets ābooted downā and non hardcore players can clear them over time.
And Iād like to point out it is an over time thing, because Iāve been playing for a little over a month, and Iāve been practicing hard for sure, and I consider myself a decent dps in the alphabet community. (Perhaps decent a bit too strong, the point is that i practiced.)
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Reposting the same quote over and over again adds nothing to the conversation. I have also said my peace about it. This whole thing started because we suggested that it would be a good idea for the devs to also see low/mid-tier guilds playing.
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Sift, I think you are missing our point which is that the content should be tweaked for all levels of skill. Yes there should be challenging content that make the more skilled players work for that win, but their should also be milder content for those players who are not yet at that level. Otherwise you end up with a skill gap that new or less practiced players are unable to jump, which just turns into frustrations and rage quits. I donāt think itās a bad idea to show them your guildās (or any elitist guild) experience. I think itās a bad idea to show them ONLY that experience. They need a good picture of all levels of their playerbase.
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I dont know. I mean most players are going to want to do the end game stuff when they get to that point. I dont see this as a completely selfish request. This would benefit the whole community. I think that people who have not gotten to end game lv yet are feeling a bit underappreciated and ignored. Everyone should be heard and have a voice but we are not trying to leave anyone out. We are only trying to extend the life of the game.
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This post is about showing the devs from a first-person perspective what the best players are capable of so that they can make content in the future that is fun for all skill levels. If you guys want the devs to see what the less experienced players are capable of then perhaps you should make your own thread rather than derailing mine.
If this goes down i hope it gets streamed. I would like to see how this goes.
If it ever were to happen then Iād imagine it would be streamed or recorded so the entire community could see what end game looks like.
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If they only see what the best players are capable of, then they will only be able to make content for the best players. Thatās the point we are trying to make.
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10 characters
Do you think that the devs are stupid? Iām pretty sure that after seeing what the best of the best can do, they would be able to balance the content with lower skilled players in mind as well.
If your objective of having them see the best players is that you donāt think they are capable of clearing their own content, then i dont see how that is different for the other players.
My point is merely that things get overlooked when your only perspective is the top of the player base.
Sifts idea still includes everyone as all end game content is open to all players.
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Yay, taking things out of context. The most efficient way to go about assessing the skill levels of players is to see the best. That is a simple fact. After seeing what people who are the best at their class are capable of, content can be created so that it is difficult enough for those players, but still possible for those that are not as good (as far as mechanics go, adding in shards makes it a different story).
I think the discussion is useless at this point. I just wanted to say no matter how valid an argument is on either side it wonāt help. How longer this thread stays active how lower the chance will be on any dev involvement.
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