PvP balance - Current status

Suggestions
#1

Hi all,

I would like to use this thread to discuss balancing PvP & class advantages and disadvantages. Below I have posted a few graphs that a few of us created after PvPing a bit… (a mix of all different classes as mains).

This is the conclusion we came to:

Definitions
Manouverability - Ability to move around whilst attacking or healing. (10 is most manouverable)
Self heal - Ability to heal themselves. (10 is highest ability to heal self)
Group heals - Ability to heal the party. (10 is highest ability to heal party)
Burst damage - How hard the dps can spike in a short time period. (10 is the hardest possible damage spike)
Damage consistency - How sustained damage can be over a longer time period. (10 is the highest damage consistency)
Defense - If the armor is made of diamonds or paper (10 is the highest defense)
Melee damage - The amount of damage that the class can deal within an arms length away from another player. (10 is more melee damage)
Range damage - The amount of damage that the class can deal out of melee range, given damage boost thresholds are dependent to class (10 is highest range damage).
Quickest to learn - How much time it takes to learn the class (10 is shortest time).

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Plus
most average on damage across burst and standard damage rotation

Minus
least manouverable
least defense
no self heal.
slowest to learn.

Main observations

  • People feel annoyed that the Runemage spell visuals are desynced with their client and visa versa this increases the potency of runemage spells.
  • People are frustrated with the lack of manouverability that runemages have.

image

Plus
Great self heal
Fair Burst Damage
Tanky in melee fights
Good burst damage
Quite easy to learn the basics

Minus
Sustained damage in melee fights is very bad.
No real defense against ranged damage

Main observations

  • Paladins are able to sustain a bit of damage here and deal strong damage in bursts.
  • General the main complaint is that ‘A paladin should be a melee class’. Paladins are forced to jump away from their target and then jump back in… They end up jumping in for a quick combo then jumping away again.

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Plus
Good Manvourability
Great Burst Damage
Great Ranged damage

Minus
One of the harder classes to learn
Loses a lot of dps in fights due to range issues
A lot of reliance on getting hits in with charged arrows

Main observations
Great manouverability and greated burst damage at a range means that rangers are able to wreck players from a distance… As the class suggests, staying at a range works effectively as a ranger and getting too close can be dangerous. No big issues with the class mentioned in PvP right now.

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Plus
Great Burst damage if player is in melee range
Great Melee range damage… if player hangs around

Minus
Screwed at range
Very limited manouverability

Main observations

  • With every other class moving around, no one wants to PvP with a Shaman… It is a very rare class to see PvPing. If someone gets too close, Shamans can inflict some serious damage.
  • Possibly could be good for a strategic turtle defense.

image

Plus
Great damage in melee range
Great damage at range
Fairly consistent damage
Strongest Burst damage (can kill players in 3 seconds).
Quickest class to learn
Extremely Manouverable
Has some ability to heal self

Minus
No group heal

Main observations
The general consensus was that there was no real weakness that the scoundrel has right now… Get close range? Scoundrel can jump behind you and shoot immediately. Shoot from far away? no problem, scoundrel can shoot around the rock with little/no time to dodge.

Pointed out was the fact that cards do not have a burn out time… once they are ready to use, they can be used at any time period after. That gives ultimate flexibility of when to ultimately burn down your target.

image

Plus
Great ability to self heal
Fairly useful for group heals
Has ability to do some small amount of damage.
Can live through healing self a bit.
Learning the class does not take too long.

Minus
Damage is low
An equally vulnerably target at melee range or long range.

Main observations
We haven’t seen enough people rolling around with musketeers to make a decent judgement as to whether or not they are even PvP viable right now… If anyone has player musketeer a lot in PvP and has some strong opinions… Please voice them! Generally the feeling is that ‘Bard’s are stronger’.

image

Plus
Very quick to learn
Great passive healing
Great manouverability
A fair self heal

Minus
Damage is low
An equally vulnerably target at melee range or long range.

Main observations
Generally a great support to have on your team and if defended correctly can help you turtle tactic any given flag.

The damage can eventually kill the target but is a lot slower than any other class (of course).

image

Plus
Melee damage is fair… but not the best
Defense is stronger than other classes

Minus
Easy to kill because they are forced in to melee range
Damage is low so it takes time to kill others
Cannot use combos easily because other players are always moving

Observations
No body wants to play a warrior… All they ever do is die…

If you have a suggestion for an edit on these graphs/numbers… Please state what you think is wrong and why you think it should be changed and finally how you would change it.

6 Likes
#2

Your damage consistency on the paladin graphic is equivalent to damage consistency on scoundrel. I think you should lower that quite a bit given current pip gen levels and wait time. Paladins are heavy burst damage, wait, wait, wait, small burst, wait, wait, wait, small burst.

Or raise scoundrel’s

#3

Ranger needs buff,
It’s all I need

1 Like
#4

Consistency should also take into account how avoidable that damage is. Ranger ought to be lower, because their special arrows are lost when you miss. Scoundrel higher, because they have a wealth of shots and don’t lose their specials.

4 Likes
#5

I would like to see a talents reset when the BG starts btw, I’m always like “BGs? Nahhhh need to switch back to non lend a hand on my mage” because I want to mooooove :neutral_face:

1 Like
#6

Agreed. We tried to take in to account damage avoidability but Ill modify them both 1 point down and 1 point up. This also addresses @Atropos suggestion too :slight_smile:

1 Like
#7

Can you state your concern in a format which covers the what, why and how?

Why do you think the ranger needs a buff? (ex; ranger gets beaten by x)
What would you change? (ex; arrow respawn time)
How would you change it? (ex; make charged shots 3 seconds :monkey: )

#8

I think what we need overall is to boost the numbers for all attacks, I think if overall the total damage needs to be increased by a small amount, it it’s nice that if you are a higher skill ranger than you can hit the critical points, but they don’t do enough damage either, currently we are the lowest DPS class in the game, and for shaman being so easy (with the cost of “not moving with your totems”) this whole message is less of a pvp concern, just that in pvp peircing arrow is dissapointing

#9

okay so… To make it easier to digest…

?? Increase all flat damage including piercing arrow damage?

#10

Yeah, that sums it up

1 Like
#11

Wow thats a lot of well put together information on the classes, thank you for the effort @J11 . @AcaviGER I agree talents are so much different for PvP and it feels bad playing with sub-optimal talents every time, especially true for land a hand which makes mages close to unviable in high level matches.

1 Like
#12

For paladins, a repost of my latest response in the other topic:

Why buff paladins?

There is something to be said for increasing the time it takes to kill someone in PvP. There is also something to be said for increasing it so far that one or more classes become unable to compete because they can’t do enough damage. The latter is where we are at for paladins, “burst damage” aside.

What to change?

personally, I think adding back in some DR and increasing pip gen again will help balance things. Pip gen is not burst damage , but sustained damage and will allow a paladin to have a fighting chance again without having to needle people down for 2 mins straight.

How to change it?

Add a slight DR buff (15-20%), generate a pip every 15% health taken.

2 Likes
#13

How about instead in PVP battleground, we just get rid of the standard movement slowdown that happen when combat starts? It makes sense in PVE where everything is happening at a set pace, but it’s annoying and unnecessary in PVP. I want to be able to run away from people or dodge projectiles besides the first.

Also +1 to being able to reselect talents in a battlegrounds, super annoying how this gets locked if you already have the class at 30 with talents selected.

2 Likes
#14

That slow down was only put in place as a way to stop ‘kiting of mobs’ anyway…

2 Likes
#15

No the slowdown was made in place for multiple reasons. One of them is that the devs did not want ppl to move a lot in battle in old game. More of a stationary battle style instead of constant moving.

2 Likes
#16

I agree with reselecting talents, but keep the slowdown… Mages will become bacically unable to hit anyone because everyone is moving at supersonic speeds on mounts, rangers would have the same issue, people are already dodging them without the slowdown. Things like sword rush would be easily dodgable because by the time the end lag finishes the enemy would already be far away, and even if something like shield bash was used, warriors can barely hit moving targets at fast speeds, forget about getting combos off. Shamans would be even more useless in Pvp, and honestly I don’t see a single benefit to removing the slowdown because simply no one could hit each other…

4 Likes
#17

@J11 you wanna adjust the manouverability from the paladin to 10. because a paladin keeps pace with you even when unmounted by just throwing your hammer ez.

also group healing wich he can heals others.

and quickest to learn wouldnt say that .

#18

Surely not a lot but I found it convenient to play musky… it can not bring people down, fast, that is true, but the main advantage is that the turret spreads dots or hots no matter how fast players are moving; on close combat you just poison the ground and it’s not dodge-able.
Sure the bard heal/dmg arepossibly stronger and it also spreads without aiming, but due to my impression bards need longer to charge everything, by playing, and only very skilled bards can move around fast and play, same time. A few encounters I had with bards I won.

It is also not all about getting kills, sometimes a class like the musky is of value for a group if he just heals and shields himself and keeps players busy for a while. I sometimes just distracted, while others catch flags meanwhile. The other way round in some groups I noticed everyone leaves me alone, likely fearing a lengthy fight, which allows to roam freely and for example catch at least the outer flags.

#19

What even is this… I disagree with a whole bunch of points made some I do agree with but I don’t even know where to start.

:slight_smile:

#21

Hey guys remember to be civil on the forums.