Scoundrel Is broken in PvP

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#41

I would welcome these changes with open arms <3

#42

I could be miss understanding what you’re meaning by debuff though.

#43

I think part of the confusion here is that people more often employ this tactic against LC because our 4-man groups tend to dominate BGs for long periods. After a while, the other players in the queue figure out this tactic. It’s not especially effective. It’s also not very fun, save for that fact that it does get kills sometimes.

I believe that puts it in the category of a “first-order optimal strategy”, a tactic that’s easy to execute, somewhat effective, but not as effective as higher skill options (see: https://youtu.be/EitZRLt2G3w)

To that end, I don’t actually see a big problem with scoundrels. High DPS classes should have a chance to full-to-nothing another class pretty quickly, but not instantly and not without some mistake by the victim or obvious counter play, which I think exists even for body rushing Scoundrels.

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#44

I used the term nerf? So I’ll explain what I meant by that. I do not mean a blanket nerf to the class’s damage. However, there needs to be something done to prevent 1 shot kills in pvp. For any and every class. Currently the 1 shot kills are a problem with Scoundrel. It doesn’t even require any skill right now, since they can just hit you from behind while they are in your hit box.

I have to disagree with you here. A lot of times you are stuck in combat and they rush you on a mount from behind. Nothing you can do. And it is a guaranteed death even from full health. Even if they come from the front in this scenario - most of the classes don’t have the burst damage to kill them before they get to you. They don’t have to shoot, they just hold onto the card until they are inside you where it is impossible to miss.

#45

Getting caught flat-footed is a mistake. It’s not a fun mistake, and not a difficult mistake, but it’s definitely something that should be punishable.

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#46

I’d agree with you if there wasn’t a large difference in your stamina and speed between being in and out of combat. If you go into combat with a pally - you are stuck that way for at long ass time since they take forever to kill. That isn’t getting caught flat footed.

#47

But it is teamwork if the tank takes aggro and his DPS allies take advantage. Now we’re talking about much wider balancing considerations than just a Scoundrel though.

More to the point, if you had seen them coming, even if you’re already in combat, robbing them of their mobility should probably be a priority.

Just tallying some options for forcing a rushing Scoundrel into combat easily:

  • Warrior - Proactively sword rush and/or raise shield
  • Ranger - Fire/spread arrow (very bad choice, but it exists; should be buffed). Otherwise spray and pray
  • Mage - Arcane Missile or Ray It was pointed out that these are poor options. T1 spells might be the best bets. However, you might just be in a bad position with poor team support if you’re stuck in combat vs a rushing Scoundrel.
  • Musket - Spray and pray (but you’re support, your ally should take care of rushing Scoundrels for you)
  • Paladin - Ground slam. Lightning bolt.
  • Scoundrel - Spray and pray. Pretty effective though
  • Bard - None? Baton is way slow. Again, you should have an ally helping.
  • Shaman - Lava/Frost totems. Lightning on an Paladin.
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#48

Nah. I’ve seen a 1 shot on a warrior from a scoundrel a couple times. It isn’t even as if the tank is bad. I can say without a doubt in my mind that he is the best PvP warrior in the game, and he is getting 1 shotted because the scoundrel gets super close and shoots once instantly killing him. (not a curved shot)

#49

All mage spells and debuffs drop off after the mage dies. Focus more on the kill rather than on a RNG heal card

#50

simply not having a flame card always come up on top would probably alleviate some of the perception of OP… it’s 1 of 6 cards, and they take ~4s to cycle through. In my stints in PVP a flame was always on top so you always have that initial burst potential IF you land a charged shot. If you hit a flame card with a regular shot 1.5 dmg is not that big a deal but if you pop with a charged/buffed combo it hurts… you won’t do that again probably until your next life unless you’re pretty lucky.

But I definitely don’t battle ground much there could be a lot more to it.

#51

I don’t think that a 1 hit kill is necessarily a bad thing in PvP. What I do think is that it should at least require some skill to do. I’ve played with a level 1 scoundrel before and he was able to 1 shot pretty much anyone he encountered fairly easily. If “high dps” classes should be able to 1 shot then I should be 1 shotting everyone in the BG, but sadly even a fireball 3 doesn’t 1 shot anyone. Hell, it takes me 4-5 fireball 2’s to get a scoundrel or an archer down when they are both capable of 1 shotting me as a mage (dodging, casting, and aiming all at the same time). The moral of the story is that scoundrel is far too easy to use in the BG due to its large damage output for uncurved bullets at 1 meter away (if that).

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#52

You are forgetting the talent that adds a second flame card to the deck. While running back into the combat from the respawn point there is a fairly good chance that you will be able to get a flame card up before reaching the middle. Especially if you flank around the side and come in from behind the enemy team. Even if you aren’t quite able to get the flame card up, you can pick the talent that allows you to charge a 4th bullet and then just run in with that (you should be doing that every time), and after shooting the charged round, follow up with the rest of the ammunition in the clip from 1 meter away into the enemy’s back which will still get you a brainless kill with little effort.

#53

I really enjoy playing scoundrel in pvp, I can’t land any curved shots and am not really good at aiming or dodging. However, rushing in with a charged shot lets me compensate for all that and effectively contribute to my team.

#54

Range and versatility should also be considerations though. Both Scoundrel and Ranger have little to no multi-target damage, whereas mages have a little more versatility. And in the case of rushing Scoundrels, that is basically melee damage, which would reasonably be greater than ranged damage.

#55

The only thing that comes to mind when I hear “multi target” is triplicity. People have so much health now that arcane blast spam is useless compared to triplicity fireball 2. Which only lasts a few seconds. You can just stop it from happening in the first place. Both the scoundrel and the ranger are capable of hitting targets from quite a long range so neither class should have a problem with doing this after a bit of practice at hitting targets from a long range. I guess what I’m trying to say is that scoundrels would rather wait for someone to start coming towards them to start attacking rather than trying to hit a shot from a range. This is simply because there is no need to hit anyone from a range as a scoundrel so long range combat is rarely practiced with this class. Whether you hit people from a range or from point blank, a scoundrels damage will always get the kill first unless they are caught by surprise. (I’m not even going to pretend to have understood what you were talking about when you mentioned melee damage. Please clarify)

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#56

You talking about big arm Eric? The guy with the 20ft arm?

#57

Thats the guy. He can easily 1 shot DPS classes once he has gotten his wound combo off. Just for the record, I have tried to get a wound combo off in pvp and it sucks. I tried for about an hour and I think I only did it once or twice.

#58

I’m comparing Scoundrel running to melee range to Scoundrels just having high melee damage. Because you actually have to get in melee range with no gap closer, this is a high risk strategy with plenty of counter play. As such, a high reward (easy damage) makes some sense.

At range, Scoundrels do need to hit that big shot, which requires charging up and, therefore, is a more punishing miss.

#59

Also mage spells are still bugged appearing to be in different places to where there meant to be…

#60

This may be true after a nerf to scoundrel’s non showing off buff shot, but as of right now if you let a scoundrel that even remotely knows how to play the class get that close to you then you are already dead. Sometimes I am able to escape these fights, but thats just because I dodged and made the scoundrel miss one or two shots when they ran in. However, even after winning super close fights like these I have little to no health every single time. So its either die in the fight almost immediately, or barely survive then die right after. I’m not trying to put myself on a pedestal when I say this, but I highly doubt that there are very many other mages that survive these close quarter fights like this.