Beta 6 Mission and Leveling Curve Feedback

Reborn Beta
#141

I honestly fear that isn’t nearly enough for those wanting to play many (or all) eight classes. The point is not only to level them, sometime, in weeks or months, but to get them to endgame fast if one aims for that; what currently feels odd is that even if I’m investing 20x more time than normal players (like, most or all of the day) there’s no progress matching that.

A complete duplicate of all the missions per class would be most attractive imho, or, if alt-leveling really is only supplemented by dailies, then monster xp should be upped, greatly; at least to half the amounts we had in the original game - which is still 5-6x more than it is now. I think there’s not many people bringing that to attention now because there’s only a handful which are crazy enough to go for alt-leveling AFTER getting from 1-30 on a new char for the achievement, which was not a problem, and AFTER leveling their favorite main from 20-30 (which most do next).

I seriously think about simply leveling my third (and 4th) class on a new char, only that this is a major fuzz because we don’t have a shared chest so I’m missing my items, need to log all the time, the 2nd char wouldn’t be in guild, I can’t easily queue for both classes and so on.

This likely will be brought up after launch again, likely also by new players who got less leftover missions to drop on alt classes.

5 Likes
#142

Okay so I wanted to make sure I went back and looked at the facts on this just to be sure, but I think at this point this is no longer accurate. Yes, they do give less XP overall in terms of the raw amount (i.e. they give 215 XP for a same-level monster whereas in the original game a same-level monster at Level 20 might have given like 400XP), but the XP curve doesn’t work the same way as it did in the old game, so that doesn’t really matter.

What should matter is what % of the overall XP you need to gain a level a single monster kill represents. E.g. if you did no quests (in the old game) or missions (in the new game), how many straight monster Even Match kills would you need to level up.

And it’s actually better in Reborn now than it was in the old game.

At Level 10 in the old game, a single monster kill was 0.6% of a level. In Reborn at Level 10, a single monster kill is 0.55%.

At Level 19 in the old game, a single kill was 0.11% of a level. In Reborn at Level 19 it’s 0.33%.

And at Level 29 in Reborn it’s 0.27%.

So actually in Reborn the value of a monster kill at higher levels is over twice as good as it was in the original game.

So yeah, I just want to clarify that, because there still seems to be a lot of sentiment out there that we somehow nerfed the value of monster grinding in Reborn, and that’s simply not true since the start of this Beta test.

Of course, you have 30 levels to get through not 20, so it’s going to take more monster kills overall to get through them, but in terms of, how many monsters do I have do grind to get a level if I don’t do anything else, at lower levels you’re about the same as the old game, and anything above Level 11, you’re much better off.

#143

I don’t get the numbers, sorry, something must be different; I grinded 3 of the old classes to 20 with no issues and wonder what it is, likely a number of factors.

Since we don’t have the exact numbers required per level it is hard to calculate, but I found I needed around 10 events for the last levels. That amounts to 75 000xp, could well be I did 2 with only 5k, so it’s around 70k needed. That would amount to 560 mobs, 125xp each.
I don’t remember we needed that much OR we did but it feels more now, because it takes more time to take them down. Killing 60 mobs takes way longer than a 5min-event, plus takes up more strength, so grinding is no longer an alternative to event-hoping. I tried to grind one level just to look, but stopped when after countless kills the bar didn’t seem to move.

As for same-level, I did not find monsters giving more than 124-128xp on my last levels OR these are in areas like wasteland with no events to farm, same time; or there’s too many groups to farm them efficiently. Same level mobs - even outside groups - can feel like mini-boss fights now, which is fun, I like that, but would not choose those to level.

In a nutshell, the most rational thing for leveling without quests seemed not to search for red or pink mobs, but to nuke saplings or whatever is around the starter events. These at least only take a few shots and the HS-events (+ occasional Lamavora/Rainforest in between) are easiest to cycle.
In comparison, I am sure the worms gave 1k+ xp (around 1200), likely with 1.6 chain bonus counted in and comin from this and considered all above it is clear everyone ‘feels’ it’s superslow now.

1 Like
#144

I don’t know where you’re getting 125 XP each, the mobs are worth 215 XP each now assuming they are even-match. Previously it was lower. But if that’s not what you’re seeing, let me know because that’s a bug that should be fixed.

Math-wise, the only thing that has changed between the old game and this one is:

  • Monsters are worth (relatively) twice as much at higher levels to make up for their increased difficulty
  • There are new things like Missions and Public Events to do which are intentionally designed to give very good XP rewards. However, that’s balanced by the fact that you can only do each Mission once, and the Public Events aren’t always available to do.

The exact thing you’re pointing out in your last paragraph (how it’s best just to mindlessly farm the lowest level mobs right by the starter events) is the entire reason we added Missions and Events in the first place. If those didn’t exist, then there would be no incentive not to just farm the easiest mobs possible. Missions will force you to go to new areas of the game and take on tougher challenges, and in exchange for that you get additional rewards.

So I guess in summary, in terms of “time spent”, it is going to take you less time per level to level up to max level in Reborn just grinding mobs. At the same time, grinding the same worm group over and over again is no longer the fastest way to level. Both of those are intentional design decisions.

#145

i think probably the biggest difference i noticed for mob exp is that mobs take long enough to kill that you dont get chain bonus in a group. That’s probably what is causing the issue for them. 1.6x exp is a lot and was pretty simple to keep up in a group of 2 previously, but now it is near impossible.

3 Likes
#146

Interesting. It sounds like on the one side:

  • technically speaking killing mobs will lvl you faster then in the old game
  • you get more % per kill on higher lvls

But on the other side:

  • you see visually less xp from a mob (lower numbers but more % of a lvl)
  • mobs have more health
  • the fights are more complicated (also making them longer)

So because it is about twice to three times as fast % experience, even with all those factors making killing slower I am not second guessing you would lvl faster killing mobs then old Orbus.

Buuuut those are a lot factors which makes it FEEL slower. So the source of the problem is not that it is slower. But that it feels slower. Even if it is faster the feeling is slower.

Then we have also the following problems added:

  • there are a lot of groups of mobs making solo grinding way harder and makes the solo player feel powerless in many areas. (There are solo mobs though but also a lot of grouped mobs)
  • events overpower mob grinding which makes mob grinding feel like a stupid choice. Even though there are ppl only wanting to mob grind. So they feel behind.

So this is mostly a feel slow problem, not a be slow. That is at-least the conclusion I am making from the two sides.

#147

Okay, we can definitely look at increasing the length of time you have to get that, that should be adjusted to match the longer TTK.

1 Like
#148

I guess I would expect that to be true, but I would not expect events to overpower mob grinding + monster hunting missions. Because from a design point of view, that is why those missions exist – to allow you to still just grind mobs to level up, but give you a reason not to just go grind the same, easiest mob group you can find for 5 hours straight.

I realize there aren’t enough mob hunting missions to ONLY do those, but I guess what I’m saying is, the average XP gain of monster grinding + monster hunting missions I would think outweighs over say 10 levels the XP gain of only doing events.

But at any rate, you’re probably right in that this is a bit of a perception thing, which is part of the reason I am trying to hopefully give some facts/math to help show it’s not as dire as it might appear if you just looked at it and went “why am I getting 215XP instead of 400XP like I was in the old game.”

But we will adjust the group bonus duration timer, and then we’ll see if that helps, because I’m sure that is at least a part of the problem I hadn’t considered.

#149

I pushed out a soft patch that should be live in the overworld zones that increased the chain bonus time so you should have around twice as much time at the higher multipliers per kill. Let me know if that helped.

1 Like
#150

I think if you split up most/all of the groups of mobs (apart from special quest mobs maybe) this would help solo players a lot, if you’re in a group you pull multiple mobs anyway so that will still happen when you’re grouped up but will give solo players the chance to take on the mobs they want to

1 Like
#151

Yeah this is how we are intending to do it, there was a bit of a miscommunication on the team, but that will be changed before launch so that as you said, the vast majority of mobs in the overworld are not grouped, with the exception of special quest-related groups, elite groups, some wildlife which don’t aggro on sight, etc.

5 Likes
#152

The wildlife still feels a little too overtuned right now too, far too much health, I’ve seen people dying to them a bunch still

3 Likes
#153

is it possible to increase the amount of xp gained from overleveled missions, or remove the decrease entirely? when u have a lot of quests saved up for any quest, it makes it so that u have to not turn in complete quests until u are actually that level, and makes it take a lot longer for not much of a reason. it should atleast be worth 8000 xp at gold, as if u worked to complete a quest u shouldnt be penalized for stopping at a public event along the way, and leveling up past the point that the quest gives any significant amount of xp

1 Like
#154

plus the added annoyance of figuring out the optimal path to turn in your quests ( going from lowest level to highest). i had times where i had to make 3 routes through the city in order to not level up too early.

3 Likes
#155

Ya the penalty thing for doing lower lvl quests is really not making sense or working at all. There is no way to make this viable as far as I can see. If the goal is letting ppl do those quests more early because it would otherwise be too easy would that not only make sense for monster kill quests? And as Xicor said it only triggers ppl to walk past all the vendors 2x more times. Or just be sad delivering quests.

To be honest it doesn’t work because we lvl too fast past the minimum lvl and there are too much quests. Like if there was no quests to do anymore except for your low lvl quests you would be forced to do them before you get overlvled. But if there is so much to pick from you just rush past what you see (ppl search the lazy route) and bam before you know it you have 6 quests below your lvl you maybe didn’t even touch :expressionless:

#156

There’s a bug in the lore quest for Pierre Cenn. When you get to the Guardian Tree rootlet quest, it doesn’t show up in your journal. Also, not sure if there are multiple of these roots, or if it is intended for you to be able to collect one 3 times, but it definitely doesn’t let you collect the same one 3 times (leave and reenter the area).

Also, if you click the lore button for some of the quest givers before you have completed their lore quest, it just exits the dialog completely. This happens with the Mayor and Pierre. Both of whom I’m pretty sure I’m missing the lore quest in the journal…

Last time I checked, the monster hunter guy will still talk to you if you haven’t finished his lore mission.

1 Like
#157

There are three spaced out through the dungeon

#158

Picked up one of each root while in a single dungeon instance, never got a message of quest complete. Tried to turn in the quest anyway and it didn’t work.

1 Like
#159

Okay then its just a feeling thing, but the fights takes way too long. I get that there are new battle mechanics for the mobs but, yesterday i was killing monsters of my lvl with my mage, my mage is my main. Well solo killing is almost impossible, even as a good mage. They came in a group of 2, they have way too much health, and please split up the groups, when you are alone you should get 1, I can understand that there are groups of more, but so I never can finish my kill quest solo, which is just mehhhh

1 Like
#160

I just tried it and have the same issue. Also Cenn won’t even talk to me at all even to tell me to bugger off. Hit the ‘…’ in the corner a dozen times and nothing