DPS of Rangers and Mages


#21

Rapidity is well behind precision. Also globemaster is much better for the level 20 talent.


#22

mmmmmm run the numbers again


#23

I have. There are advantages in precision I don’t think most people account for if you play it right. Which I think is why our rangers are usually top on damage.


#24

Just gonna point this out… Getting a bit off topic. Blaming myself for this as well… heh


#25

You obviously missed something about rapidity


#26

Ok on this topic let’s only reply with numbers of dps instead basically going I’m good ur trash back and forth


#27

Until/unless someone is willing to do absurdly extensive testing in a number of situations with detailed recorded results in identical combat scenarios OR we get combat logs that include damage, I think this conversation is always going to come down to “I think X” vs “Nuh-uh”.

I’m pretty sure Riley has committed to adding a combat log we can parse at some point in the future, so until that happens, I’m going to largely hold off on arguing about it.


#28

The numbers behind the talents are easy to determine with simple testing. From there is just math to determine maximum potential output.


#29

While I am no longer playing the highest end content, I’ve done enough captures to know it is almost futile to try and calculate DPS per class as there are so many variables, such as perfect casting, talent tree choices, spell rotations, etc that make it difficult to get an accurate number.

All of this effort is only as useful as the next update / tweak to the game. I think the more useful topic is should the DPS output even be close? The mage class has a range of utility spells like polymorph, shield, and decurse that can be critical to certain bosses.

The ranger should be able to easily out DPS a mage. I say this as primarily a mage player.


#30

@Riley_D is there any way you could help us out with this testing? Could we get a method to test this. Some kind of closed environment with a dummy that doesn’t regenerate health? You could put it in the activities section or something. Or alternatively you could make a special shards dungeon for a t1 shard with no mutations and we can go test on kelpie.

If we had that we could get some really decisive footage of DPS in consistent environments.


#31

or just add logs…lol


#32

I mean logs would be implementing a whole new feature to Orbus before reborn. The other ways would heavily use existing assets to save work.


#33

Or he could just provide the numbers. There’s a post a while back where he stated he wasn’t against giving out the specific stats, it’s just been on the back burner for a while.


#34

One thing I am sure is that rangers are FAR from being as effective as mage in soloing content. Looking at you aelar :face_with_monocle:

Once you see a mage clear a pack of mobs faster than you down 1 enemie you just kinda want to break your bow, throw your arrows in the river and pack everything to go home


#35

thats what reborn is for, right?


#36

If this is the case, why do we have so many different opinions on this?

Factoring in every talent, every affix (and affix combo with legendaries), maximum player skill, travel time, tileset selection and uptime, combat rotation, etc is anything but simple. And that is assuming we’re not missing anything under the hood which is less than obvious. Even if the theoretical on-paper math says there is an enormous disparity, anecdotal combat testing has suggested that top mages and top rangers are pretty close in terms of pulling aggro when the tank dies, but is aggro even a reliable indicator of damage output? Is this happening due to misunderstandings with tileset procs or something else? Is the theory math wrong in some other way?

And as Lok and others have pointed out, even if we completely lock down exact numbers on perfect scenario single target DPS (which I don’t believe anyone has), there’s then the question of AE damage, as well as combat boosting of teammates, and even utility contribution.

AND THEN, there needs to be consideration of effectiveness when multiple of the class is in effect. Even if we prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that runemages are wildly outdamaging rangers individually, what happens when you have 6 runemages stomping on each other’s afflictions and other dots?

Without combat logs, I can think of a number of ways to try to zero in on in-game vetted damage comparisons, but it would be an enormous undertaking that would need countless datasets from a large number of players, meticulously tracked.

All of that being said, if anyone really wants my off-the-cuff sense of Ranger vs Runemage comparison. I believe that Runemage outdamages Ranger in most directly comparable single-target sustained DPS group situations by about 5%, in solo situations by about 20%, in AE scenarios by about 300%, and in terms of utility… I dunno, infinitely?


#37

People have not done the testing and/or the math and have opinions based off anecdotal evidence and not facts.


#38

None of this matters. Muskie damage is best damage. I don’t even heal anymore in raids. I’m there to kill baddies with my American guns. All this Robin Hood/Harry Potter talk is irrelevant.


#39

I can assure you I personally have done extensive testing as well as quite a lot of others in our guild. That’s how we are able to kill target dummies. With more testing I’m sure you’d figure out eventually that rapidity is actually a small damage increase over precision.

I agree, really tough for any tank to hold aggro once a musket starts dps’ing.


#40

The rapidity talent multiples the base damage of your shots by 1.1 when the rapidity bar is full. So its a 10% damage increase on normal shots vs no talent at all. Since you can do 3 shots per second your damage per second is 3.3 times the damage of a normal shot.

The precision talent multiplies the damage of a normal shot by 3.3 when the bar is full, which takes a second so if you fire once every second your dps is 3.3 times the damage of a normal shot just like rapidity. But you don’t have to fire once every second you can fire anywhere between 0.9 and 1 second and still do 3.3 times damage. Or you can fire between 0.8 and 0.9 seconds and do 3.0 times damage. So there are 2 kind of sweet spots in shot timing at 0.8 and 0.9 seconds where you can max damage at 3.0/0.8=3.75 and 3.3/0.9=3.67 respectively. So optimally your dps as a precision ranger can be 3.75 times your base normal shot damage. That is a 25% dps increase with precision as compared to the 10% from rapidity.

Additionally precision rangers do not lose any shots when they grab their special arrows because they have at least 0.8 seconds to do so. I’m really not sure how fast the best rapidity rangers can grab arrows off their waist but I highly doubt its possible to do so and maintain a steady 3 shots per second.