DPS of Rangers and Mages


#1

I think that the results from that were…

Fireball 2 spam = average ranger
Fireball 2 spam + frost dot rotation = above top rangers
Any reliable affliction rotation is just nasty. To the point where it’s easy to pull bosses.

(Given that all tilesets, affixes, and crits are the same.)
The worst part, however, is that these numbers were calculated with giving the rangers hunters mark, and we forgot to add in selfish streak to the mage numbers.

So yeah. Balance is definitely needed. #rangerbuffplease


Make Reborn dungeon/raid/boss content beta-testable
#2

I don’t think ranger and mage dps is that much different. The rangers in alphabet are generally out dpsing our mages.

Even if they are 10% different, I’m talking about the fact that expert mode bosses can easily be done with dpsers who can only pull 50% of their classes potential. Where as tanks and healers have to be at the top of their game to stand a chance of winning.


#3

i do more dps on my level 8 mage than i do on my lvl 20 T12 ranger

also when u think about the different class abilities that rangers vs runemages have, what does the ranger have that is better or even equal to a mage, utility or dps wise? regular arrows are far worse than fire 2s, charged piercing is only a around 2k above a fire 3, and the difference is easily made up by the difference in fire 2 fire power, poison is worse than a frost dot which can stack 3 times, which is also worse than a afflcition, which can also stack, charged piercing is also only a tiny bit better than a ic\elance with icelance and fire 3 having 0 cooldown,
and yes, even our best utility the ranger trap falls behind compared to the polymorph, which once again has no cool down.
then besides those dps stuff, mages have other uses as well, such as manashield, decurse, pushback, etc etc

and finally dont forget about the skill cap
a ranger has a very clear max dps they can achieve while a mage is only limited by skill. i can spend 50 hours a day and never get any better dps, because i am limited while a mage can raise their cast time


#4

We had a strategy on Expert Boss 5 to solo Tank and I generally was on the 2nd aggro table as a Ranger with 2 mages in the group because I never got sent up. Although when J came back to play he was above me so I think a really good mage is better but the average mage is probably worst do to reliability.

Edit: Although this may be skewed as the person who has the most damage initially stays at the 2nd aggro table due to everyone else being teleported up. That being mages probably have better damage over a long period.


#5

decently sure i know what it is, and will also say that within rangers talents arent balanced easier, and say precision works alot better with the bonus damage for range than rapidity


#6

I don’t think the mages have optimized their rotations if rangers are out dpsing them. A good ranger should be able to beat out an average mage. But a great ranger will lose to a great mage every time.

This is correct for every boss except the 5th.

This is just a dumb comment, you know this is not true. I think once Riley adds logs we will be able to see how much of a gap there is. I don’t think it’s as big as you think it is.

I agree, I would like to see rangers get more utility


#7

This is a terrible boss to use as an example due to the mechanics not hitting every person equally which will skew the results.


#8

Not really considering we are talking about the 1st 15 seconds where no one gets teleported or poisoned.

Also I’m not trying to brag but we generally have more rangers in our Tier 1 group and generally faster times on kills. Although you may not being trying as hard for those achievements and our strats may be different.


#9

I’m not the one who did our testing on the difference between damage output but our results suggest a very large discrepancy.

I mean that varies heavily with the fight though. Boss 5 has a hard DPS check in both the demon and the enrage timer. Boss 4 is more about precision than raw numbers. Boss 3 is super easy once you identify the mechanics boss 2 is a huge DPS check depending on strategy. Boss 1 isn’t really a DPS check but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have one boss in expert mode that a pug group can take on.

I get you that tank is an incredibly demanding role and musketeer has extremely limited room for mistakes. I don’t think the answer is to make all of the roles in every fight this demanding though.


#10

I’m also not saying Rangers aren’t limited but we do have our advantages by not being Range capped like mages and the ability to shoot while moving much easier making our damage uptime way better.


#11

We can’t really compare the two as our strats overall focus on stability rather than damage numbers they’re two very different things. I’d really just enjoy an isolated environment for dps testing. That’d be sweet. Maybe a dummy that counts up damage and can be set to be damageable for a specific amount of time.

DtR guild Hall reward^^^^?


#12

dont forget that we are capped tho, mages can always get better and shave some time off how long it takes to cast, and every .5 second is a big difference, but rangers 99% of the time can not get better, and can only optimize by using difference talents. the only way for a ranger to get higher numbers than normal is to use the 40 meter or whatever talent, which only works on a certain few bosses where u can actually get range to make it work, and even then i dont think it will be enough to make the difference between the best ranger and the best mage, or even 2 that are close to the top

also in our testing where there was a huge difference hunters mark was applied on ranger but not mage, even tho mage would always get the beneift from it in a raid or dungeon


#13

I don’t trust threat to be a proper representation of damage done.


#14

I specifically said I’m not saying rangers aren’t capped.

Also we do have some form of high skill ceiling by maximizing our damage in the 90-100% precision area being really hard to time correctly.


#15

Gotcha, the initial 15 seconds wasn’t clarified. Makes more sense now.

One thing that I do notice, however, is that when there are multiple mages (on our runs), afflictions are either overcast, or not cast very often (in my experience). As the only mage in a fight, I personally feel responsible for keeping all 3 afflictions up at all times, so I think that also increases my dps as a mage in certain circumstances.


#16

What spec were the rangers using in the test?


#17

T12 legendary bow, rapidity with quick charge, multishot, and im blanking on what the final talent options even are

PS jsut googled it and i have globe master


#18

First 15 seconds is not an accurate representation, running a full mage rotation with dots last longer than that. You want to test over 5 minutes to get an accurate sample size. A person could have a few lucky crits in 15 seconds and of course that will skew the data.

We go for stability over dmg numbers. Who cares about dmg numbers if you can;t get the boss down. And once we beat a boss we typically do not use potions. I will tell you all of our dps rotations are maxed. We even have some members that can solo the lvl 20 dummy in HS which if you have ever tried is certainly no easy task.


#19

Yeah I don’t believe Rangers can solo the lvl 20 dummy at all which is why Mages have better damage overall.


#20

Shiki has solo’d the training dummy btw.