In-game Purchases

Suggestions
21

I have no problem with a cosmetic system or even a customizable style / color scheme system so long as it is available to all if you want to spend 5 bucks on a piece of gear that is going to cost me X dram but both are completely cosmetic and identical in every way that’s a non issue

That is probably the only way I would see this kind of feature as favorable and that’s assuming the dram cost isn’t insanely high that you have to spend months grinding it out i could reasonably see a few days grind at level cap to earn up the dram for said cosmetic pieces this way if you want to save time + support the game and are willing to pay cash for convinient cosmetic content you have that option while those off us with other priorities for that money can still enjoy the cool cosmetic gear by playing the in game economy which is really in need of dram drains (places to spend it other than repairing guild upgrades or player homes)

2 Likes
22

I’m quoting directly from the Steam store page for the game:

OrbusVR does not have a required monthly subscription fee! Once you’ve bought the game, you are able to play it as much as you’d like without paying us another dime. We don’t have any “Pay 2 Win” in-app purchases or loot boxes, either. In the future, we may introduce an in-game cosmetics shop, but anything purchased there will not have any game mechanic advantages.

Our ongoing business strategy is to release yearly expansion packs which will cost an additional fee to unlock that new content, similar to other “Buy Once” MMOs.

None of this is set in stone, but here are some things that will probably be on offer eventually:

  • Additional eye, mouth, and hair styles
  • Cosmetic-only gear for roleplaying (e.g.a “tuxedo” you can wear)
  • Additional pet designs (which don’t do anything mechanically different than the dragon pet, but just look different, like the Kickstarter backer dragons look different)
  • When we eventually introduce mounts into the game, different mount designs

However, I am a fan of also offering different versions of some of these things as in-game rewards as well. So for example, there might be a rare mount that you can only get as a 1% drop off of a really hard boss. There’s also a mount you can only get in the cosmetic shop. So even if you don’t want to spend money buying the cosmetic mount, you can still get a really cool mount from an in-game reward.

Regarding a few of the other thoughts in this thread:

I have tried the “voluntary subscription/donation” route in the past with other projects, and unfortunately it simply doesn’t work. There are a few people who will give up some money just to support the game, but most people expect to get something in return; that’s just how it goes.

Along the same lines, it’s very hard to balance allowing people to grind in-game for all the rewards from the cash shop. Because either you end up with a loot box system (which no one wants) where you earn loot boxes while playing, or you end up having to set the in-game reward mechanic insanely high to make it “worth it” for people to want to spend $5 on the cash shop.

However, I have been thinking about offering a system similar to the EvE Online and WoW systems whereby you could trade in-game dram to other players in exchange for cash shop currency. So for example let’s say that we have a currency for the in-game cash shop called “Crystals”. And you can buy 1000 Crystals for $10. At that point we could offer a system where you can put 1000 crystals up for auction and another player could buy it for 10,000 dram (totally made up numbers). That way there is a mechanism by which players who don’t want to spend cash on the game (or can’t) but have time to earn in-game currency could still get access to those cash shop items. But again, that is just a thought at this point and not something I’ve committed to.

Finally, since this is a really sensitive topic for a lot of folks, let me just re-iterate the Guidelines on the forums, and in particular point out that it’s fine to express an opinion on this, but once your opinion is expressed you need to let others express theirs as well, not respond to every single post saying the same thing. Basically, don’t turn this into a flame-war or we’ll have to lock the thread.

Okay, hope that clears things up!

9 Likes
23

I don’t see the need for an in between currency, you could easily adjust dram prices to the current economy my concern is that as with the wow token when people stop buying them to sell they become inaccessibly expensive to anyone except the most effective economy players plus the dram isn’t leaving the economy then it’s just moving from person to person and since there is no auction house in orbus this could be detrimental to the economy of the game especially if those founders who already are guaranteed a market stall are willing to keep pumping money into the game to monopolize markets it essentially becomes a form of pay to win

I feel as though having cosmetic shop only items is a real let down which is unusual for orbus If they are exclusive for cash it’s stupid and should be left out.

24

To be perfectly clear (and again, I haven’t decided if this mechanic would be included in the game for sure or not yet):

  • The Merchants only get to keep their stalls without paying dram to lease them for one more month, and as of the patch this morning only 6 out of 20 stalls in the game are leased by Merchants from the Kickstarter via that system.

  • If we did implement this system, it would be done with a global auction that is entirely separate from the in-game Market stalls. This would not be a tradable item in-game, it would be a separate official auction. So this has nothing to do with the Market Stall system or the rest of the in-game economy. It doesn’t even contribute to inflation or deflation since (as you said) the money just trades hands between players, it is neither a gold sink nor a faucet.

6 Likes
25

Players pay dram to keep stall open
Players buy in between currency to put on auction
Player uses dram from auction to keep stall
Player buys more in between currency to buy majority of a market

It’s not completely unrelated even if there is an official in between where as a vendor with x dram removes the dram from the economy without giving that power to another player

Also one of the six kickstarter stalls already started a market guild with that pay to win advantage and is buying any and all materials people will sell them, note to any potential sellers if you do this you are giving them the ability to monopolize when the game becomes more finalized.

And if there is going to be a global auction system there is no reason for market stalls which is a shame because it is a unique fun and creative approach to moving goods I have never seen in any of the 50+ Mmos I have beta tested for

26

I feel like you are intentionally mis-reading what I’m saying at this point, so I’m just going to say this and then move on.

The Auction thing would only be for buying this one in-between currency. Nothing about Market Stalls is changing.

As for your scenario about dram, since the dram has to exist with a player in the first place, the only way that would happen is if a player with enough dram to “buy a majority of the market” cared more about getting Crystals then buying the market. The dram has to come from somewhere. So I suppose in that scenario all that would happen is which player could buy out the market changed.

At any rate, thanks for your feedback, let’s let some others chime in and see what they have to say. As I said I am not sold on the idea yet either, but I’d like to get feedback from a variety of folks on what they think.

7 Likes
27

No I’m sorry if it feels that way but you weren’t very clear as to the extent of which a global auction would function

As for your scenario about dram, since the dram has to exist with a player in the first place, the only way that would happen is if a player with enough dram to “buy a majority of the market” cared more about getting Crystals then buying the market. The dram has to come from somewhere. So I suppose in that scenario all that would happen is which player could buy out the market changed.

If you are using the wow token as a blueprint then that is not the case as the second the player buys the in between currency they are given the gold and the in between currency goes up for auction until someone buys it.

All in all you are going to do what you want with your game but as someone who has seen this play out countless times before over the past 15 years I’ve been playing mmos it’s going to hurt the game not help it. Making exclusive items for people with the money to buy them never ends well plain and simple cosmetic or otherwise.

28

OrbusVR is tastefully made, and shows every indication that it will adjust as necessary to maintain it’s high standards. I trust that the dev team can handle their purchase model in a way that works well for the majority.

14 Likes
29

One of the things about orbus that makes it so great is how unique it is and I don’t see a reason to go copy every other run of the mill mmo by adding cash only items, when the 2nd best thing about orbus is the community and making items that are pay exclusive only ever divides a community case and point cataclysm from wow when they introduced the sparkle pony which was a less detailed version of perhaps the rarest mount in the game at the time many notable players not limited to but including total biscuit were outraged by the idea and look at the subscriber rate during that expansion it tells the tale for you. The serious players got pissed at the devs and left because they a made a divide in the community by introducing pay for exclusive content and catered to the majority of players constantly. Since the mount / pet store has been introduced it hasn’t brought anything good and it even led to paying for a level capped toon something we were told would never happen. one of the reasons I’m so passionate about my opinions of this game is how freaking amazing it is right now and major changes like this could stand to ruin something that has no reason to risk. It’s the only vr mmo it doesn’t have to compete for popularity because even if competition sprouts the playerbase is happy and invested where as if they isolate part of the playerbase they give opportunity for competition to rise in their short comings And I know riley wants to hear more supportive opinions as mine are clearly the dissenting minority but I seriously doubt there’s a single person on this game currently with as much beta testing experience as I have or time / money (I spent 10k on rift alone another great game ruined by this exact mechanic) invested into mmos (Seriously inbox me if you want to compare notes I have a resume)

30

That’s a bit dramatic about the sparkle pony thing. Wow has barely any mounts or items for sale in their shop and the token thing you said earlier was incorrect also. I could easily buy a token just from questing gold.

Orbus will need an in game cash shop or something like it to stay afloat eventually. Trust in the devs and don’t go nuts when things don’t go exactly as you want and things should be fine. He doesn’t put all this work in just for players to tell him what to do all day.

I am excited to see what is offered in the shop and I’ll definitely be making purchases. OrbusVR deserves a lot of my future moneys :slight_smile:

12 Likes
31

As long as it is cosmetic items that don’t affect gameplay - there are 0 negatives to adding those in for real money purchase. Once the items affect gameplay then you have a problem.

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32

But you are perfectly fine with excluding people who don’t have gobs of free time to play but do have money to spend and would like to enhance their game experience? Many people in their 40s, 50s, and even 60s play games but have demanding careers that limit their time to play games. That segment - which is large - should have options as well. The argument that they didn’t work for it treats them like lazy people who just visit the game. Nothing could be further from the truth. They would LOVE to play all the time. They would LOVE to spend days playing all the time to obtain the best gear.

To say they are not allowed to use some real money to also obtain some fun gear (that isn’t as good as top tier or the gear for grinders) is excluding them and also limiting your player base. It is short-sighted.

Also, people already bought gear . . . hello Kickstarter. To offer an option for fun in-game is actually beneficial for Orbus and doesn’t hurt the grinders who will always have the best gear so long as IAP is done correctly.

4 Likes
33

Talk about purposely misreading and misrepresenting someone

“Also, people already bought gear . . . hello Kickstarter. To offer an option for fun in-game is actually beneficial for Orbus and doesn’t hurt the grinders who will always have the best gear so long as IAP is done correctly.”

I already said this and this is also one of the biggest regrets most players have right now who were unaware of the kickstarter when it happened if that’s any indication but the kickstarter also offered greater rewards for the whole community such as the 5th class we fell just shy of 6 grand short for.

“o say they are not allowed to use some real money to also obtain some fun gear (that isn’t as good as top tier or the gear for grinders) is excluding them and also limiting your player base. It is short-sighted”

tell that to rift, or SWTOR or the numerous MMOs out there that introduced pay to win mechanics and watched their player base run to the next trending mmo.

Also stepping off the forums you guys got it covered thanks though.

34

I don’t think it was misreading or misrepresenting you. My position is that people who can’t play as often should have unique options to buy gear that is not essential or game-breaking. Your view seems to be that that category of gamer should never be able to buy unique gear. Everything they buy must also be something that can be purchased with dram.

If I am mistaken then just let me know. If I am correct, I disagree with that view. The fact is that people with dramatically less time to play are unlikely to ever get the best grinder gear. So why can’t you be “gracious” enough to let someone in the category I am referencing to have something unique and fun?

35

This is not what i said. I said and i repeat for the third time

Now i’ve already received a community warning for my dissenting opinion

(take the tampon out riley and yeah i’m willing to take the punishment for that comment)

despite the amount of hours i’ve invested testing / hashing out bugs / making reports and suggestions

free of charge just in the interest of bettering the game

now i just want to sit back and enjoy Orbus while it’s in it’s prime because if this thread is any indication it’s going to go down hill from here. i pray to god i’m wrong but if history repeats itself i’m not.

so this will be my final post on this thread and otherwise.

you’re already talking about pay for stat gear that isn’t as good as grinding gear which wasn’t even on the table of this conversation let’s just make it so you can pay 20 dollars and start the game with a class at level 20 if you buy the game for 60 bucks by that logic because not everyone has the time to invest into leveling a class or 4 classes.

many mmo’s that were great tried to do this and they never walk away with a larger player base than when they started and orbus will be no different in that regard.

36

Well, that escalated quickly.

I had previously asked Dean_T not to spam this thread with the same opinion over and over again, as his thoughts on the matter were well-noted and acknowledged, and I wanted to get a variety of opinions.

I am perfectly fine with people disagreeing with me and as I said I am looking for feedback on this issue, as it’s not set in stone yet, but obviously when providing that feedback, please follow the Forum Guidelines.

Please feel free to continue the discussion, everyone else. As I am still interested in hearing opinions on this.

6 Likes
37

Riley, the single most important thing is that the cash shop items don’t replace EVERY instance of earning or unlocking outfits.

If you can find an obscure quest and get a weird pet or costume, that would be amazing.

If you want to recolor that pet or costume 5 times and sell them in the cash shop for variety, that will be better.

You’ve already said that you intend to keep in game unlocks a thing, and that is really the crux of it. Some developers make it so you can ONLY get items like that through the cash shop, and that has left a bitter taste in a lot of peoples mouths. As long as we still have in game unlockables and customization options, I can’t really see the harm in adding cash shop items. As long as the ratio of in-game to cash shop cosmetics and pets stay at a good level, I can’t imagine being personally dissatisfied.

2 Likes
38

I didn’t want to quote the tampon comment as I figured it was too easy to slam you for that one. Riley, you just earned my respect for showing extreme restraint when someone decides to insult you with a juvenile (and not even that creative) insult.

Dean, I don’t think it is worth continuing the debate as our opinions are out there now. I will say you made a tremendous logic leap by taking my suggestion to mean you can pay to start at level 20. The overarching issue is the idea that you have a large player base that simply does not have the time to devote to grinding and therefore will never achieve the epic gear. Speaking for myself only, I don’t mind that someone who can play all the time gets the best gear. More power to them. I used to be one of them back in college. I am simply stating that people with discretionary income but little time should be considered and have options. How far that goes, what is available for purchase, etc. will be left to the Devs.

I think it is a valid issue and I raise it because I think Orbus will suffer in the long term if it doesn’t cater to both constituencies. You can make IAP in a way that benefits the grinders AND the group I keep referring to in my posts.

How to do that and the best way is a whole different thread and I expect the Devs will spend loads of time figuring out that balance. I will say that Orbus is really the first game in town right now and it can capitalize by shoring up its base with creative uses of IAPs - sooner than later.

Don’t forget that just as grinders have a level of loyalty due to the time sunk into a game so do others who invest real world money and don’t want to see it go to waste by running to the next VR MMORPG on the block.

Finally, I can’t comment about your argument about all the other MMOs who have tried in-game purchases and never walked away with larger player bases as (1) you don’t give any examples and (2) there are a myriad of reasons why various MMOs fail to grow and you can rarely (if at all) point to one specific act with 100 percent certainty which is the sole reason for it.

1 Like
39

While I too am sometimes skeptical of cash shops, I have absolute faith in the devs here. As someone who’s only had the game for a week, their responsiveness, qol improvements, and transparency have really blown me away.

Looking forward to working with them and the community on this, when the time comes :slight_smile:

5 Likes
40

It always amazes me when people act like there is only one right approach to something and everyone else is automatically wrong. No one has a monopoly on good ideas, and I promise you that there are other long-term dedicated gamers, developers, and beta-testers in the community that have decades and decades of experience, and their opinions are just as valid as yours or someone who is playing Orbus as their first game ever.

It also amazes me when someone talks about how great the community is and then proceeds to belittle others opinions and insult the developers with offensive comments. You are literally killing the thing you claim to love.

I believe one of the challenges Orbus keeps running into is that on one-hand it’s something we’ve never had before… a true VRMMORPG, and on the other, it has all of these mechanics and systems that we’re familiar with from other games. Everyone has a preferred progression system, or loot system, or class system, or payment model, or whatever, and in the non-VR MMO landscape, you can probably find one that is pretty well tailored to your preferences if you care that much.

However, at the moment there is just one VRMMO right now and Orbus is it. This means that all of our different preferences are going to need to be shared and discussed in as civil and patient manner as possible, and we need to resist the urge to behave the way many other large gaming communities do, devolving into spewing toxic insults and entitled demands at every turn.

There are successful projects out there across a wide array of business models, be it subscription, cosmetic cash-shop, buy 2 play, and even pay 2 win. The Orbus devs have publicly stated their intended policies, and anyone buying the game through steam had an opportunity to see what they are planning to do. Not that this should preclude discussion, but it’s the default ground work to build on when we bring our own preferences into the mix.

For example, personally, I prefer a monthly subscription model for my MMOs (for a number of reasons I won’t bore you with), BUT I can acknowledge that this is a barrier to entry that drives many players away, that the player base may not be large enough to support it yet, and that the devs have already committed to a different business model, and I can enjoy the game without it bringing me down.

My personal hard line is when a game goes Pay 2 Win, where the most powerful gear comes exclusively from real money transactions, which the devs have already committed to avoid at all costs.

I’m very interested to see some cosmetic offerings in-game or for cash, as I feel we need to be able to differentiate ourselves more as the player base matures into the same gear.

Ultimately, I trust the devs to make the best call for the game, and I can’t wait to see what they add.

7 Likes