Patch 6.0: Waystation Crypt Raid

We just pushed out a new client-side patch that should fix the Party menu and make it possible to leave large parties. Thanks!

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I do like that you guys over tune first then back off a little. It is a great idea.

I am not a fan of the drop strategy in these dungeons. It is fine to make the gear hard to get.
I like the system if it offered anything good. The problem is that it is pointless hard to get gear. Why not add wrist items or different stats to the new gear that could be infused in to older better gear. It is just the same old gear with a different look but worse stats. Shard dungeons are way easier to get a group for and run.
I just worry these great bosses will be under seen due to the poor quality of the reward compared to the shard dungeons.

honestly there shouldnt be a lockout system if they are that hard to get, or just make it were every boss drops 2 tokens or lower item token costs

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Back in the days of vanilla world of Warcraft raiding it would take you easily 7+ Weeks of raids to get a full set, When bosses are only dropping 4 items on average with a 40 man raid team. The issues I have is the Raids set won’t even be an upgrade which makes them cosmetic’s for hardcore players, For the difficulty, numbers and time needed to run raids the gear really should be a lot better specially for hard mode.

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^ This.

And that didn’t just go for World of Warcraft. Similar gated-content-mechanics have been present in earlier games as well as later games. Not to mention many games today. The major reasons people kept banding together week after week after week were:

  • Hitting your head against hard encounters, and heck even failing hard encounters again and again and again until your teamwork, skill and tactics come together to finally get a boss killed and get that great feeling of accomplishment (not to mention the usual epic nerdscreams on voicecom)
  • Improving week after week on how to kill said boss(es) and mentally moving content from “progression” to “farm” status
  • Slowly getting higher gear for further progression

I seems to me that many posters here mainly have an issue due to already being better geared from shard dungeons. And while i understand the urge to get loot, well, if you have better then you have better and thats that.

On the other hand, mmorpgs of all ages usually have a tiering system, where raid loot > dungeon loot. Now the shard dungeons already have tiers. But if the just released raid is balanced for shard T5 gear, then the rewarded gear - due to being raid aquired - ought to be quite a lot higher than going 1-2 up the shard tier chain to make them more attractive than “just” gearing up in dungeons.

I have neither experienced shard dungeons or the raid content in this game yet, so the above is just my 2 cents based off of what i can read in the thread and 20 years of playing (other) mmorpgs :wink:

Edit:
Fun fact i remembered now that world of warcraft was mentioned (i played from open beta and quit at the release of Wrath of the Lich King). When Sunwell Plateau was the “new thing”, i think i logged about 700 wipes before we killed M’uru the first time. And i had and have no regrets on that either. The nerd scream when we finally downed that particular boss was more than epic.

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^ That’s my favourite part in endgame content, i’ve been looking for a really hard boss since the promise of the “very challenging” bosses in TM which unfortunately i didn’t find that challenging. Now we finally have a boss that no one has got to beat in one day and i’m sad it’s going to be nerfed so quickly, i would suggest giving it at least a full week before retuning it, not just a weekend.

No, this content is for lower level players. It is not tuned as intended. You have hard mode in a few weeks. Yes, it is fun for us… But I imagine this is supposed to be more of a LFR feel, as hard mode is coming out and a harder hard mode a few weeks after.

I instantly noticed that things where way overtuned the moment we attempted the second boss and we were looking for alternate strategies to damage him cause his hp wasnt going down. The third boss hp was going down but because of the constant moving we barely were able to put a dent in it. Looking at our performance and how the way were doing it was onvious this boss would take way over 15 minutes even if we didnt screw up…

I can understand things need to be challenging but u cannot expect people to be on there A+ Game for longer then 10 to 15 + minute at the time in a boss fight. the longer the fights last the more humans will slip up. And more random stuf will get add in the total Sum.

As others said, there are hardmodes to come right… so you can enjoy the “challenge” soon again, even if they get nerfed so that new 20s really got a chance.

As for amounts of gear tokens, with one or two raid days per week (since we do shards on others), and current length/difficulty, I expect no more than 3 tokens per week. So it takes at least 2 weeks, sometimes more to get one piece while same time spent in shard dungeons gives alot more and supposedly even better quality so as others said it looks a bit off…
Plus it takes lots of organization to get a full group of 10 (as a smaller guild we teamed up with another) and if that effort isn’t as rewarding, gearwise, as just quickly running a shard dungeon there will likely be trouble to find people willing to raid in the future, just my 2 cents.

Other than that I liked the new mechanics and everything, it was fun, just I do worry abit about the length of fights, with current strategies it looked like 20-30mins of continuous routines of kiting, jumping, shooting per boss (except as for the first one) and that’s simply too much of concentration needed I believe, least for vr.

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Did that have anything to do with why I don’t see the XP from the trash mobs in there? Exslayer had the same problem last night. They still give XP, right?

Raid groups get no experience

Yup, the loot makes no sense at all. It certainly is not in line with what is “normal” for mmos… Not that the game has to be the same as other games. Be different… But make sense. It is much harder to get a good 10 man team, and I think this fact is being greatly underappreciated. They are going to have to nerf this raid into the ground in order for it to be completed by people in <shard 5 gear. I just can’t see who this “easy” mode is being marketed to. “Can’t complete mid tier, 5 man shards? Try the much more complex and unforgiving 10 man raid!” The raid is lots of fun. It’s a big upgrade in mechanics, and complexity. I don’t mean to criticize the raid itself. My recommendation would be to get the mechanics working properly, and leave the difficulty around where it is now. Change the gear dropped to be something like tier 8-12, increasing with each boss (maybe [please] add an interesting set bonus) and then add an even harder mode later, with even greater gear upgrades. This would allow people to still progress in shard dungeons but be able to start participating in raids around the point where the dungeons begin getting really difficult. People in that situation could then farm the first raid boss for shard 8 quality gear, allowing them to more easily progress in shards, getting better gear/refining skills, allowing them to start clearing more of the raid bosses…

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I was not in a raid group. They were giving us 1200 XP each.

Its been too recent. Wait until it has been out for a week or two to see if they should be tuned a bit down. As for the Developers could you tell us what you had intended.

Are they suppose to be for 10 man, or 8/9, with 10 being there to ensure things?

Are they intended for after T10 shards and wearing T10 gear or as another way to get gear equivalent to shards 1-5 gear?

Are they suppose to take 10-15 minutes per boss or +30 minutes?

Once the players get a better idea at the intention of the Developers, we could better tune our criticism and make recommendations towards that goal. Hope you guys listen but also aren’t too haste in changing things. And again cool content.

Oh btw are the bell for the 4th boss suppose to make sounds? That would be really cool. When we were there they didn’t so :man_shrugging:

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I believe the devs have already said the expected upgrade path for a fresh 20, is to run some tradu mines to get 20.25 gear, and then run the normal raids to get 20.5, and then they can run shards or hard mode raid to get 21.

They’ve also said they plan to reduce the difficulty on the raid on Tuesday morning when it resets.

Additional minor bug: The corrupted mobs don’t count towards the quest to kill corrupted mobs.

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There is a slight flaw in the gear being equivalent with shard gear. Unless you are getting one that cost 5, you will be able to most likely to get gear beyond Tradu 20.25 before you can get 20.5 gear from raids. Put in other words by the time you are able to buy something relevant, (my estimate being one or two weeks), a player would have learned and done shard dungeons that drop equal to or better than 20.5 gear.

If running shards are more easier then it makes easy raids almost obsolete. In my opinion easy Raids should either be tuned as content after or before shard dungeons. If it is before then easy Raids it needs to be easier. If not don’t tune it down right just yet.

All in all I think the decision to release hard mode raids later was really smart. Once we get the easy Raids in a spot where the Dev’s want it will inform them on hard raids.

Lord Dethslatü is dead! :smiley:

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Congrats. We are all well impressed :clap: .

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Not sure where you are getting 20-30 minutes for raid bosses. None of the fights take longer than 15 minutes once you understand the mechanics. Most raid boss fights are taking between 6-10 minutes. I’m sure they will be even quicker after the nerf they will get on Tuesday.

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Challenged accepted.