Proposal to improve market stall data modeling, automation, and awesomeness

The existing market place method has been around for long enough now that it is pretty evident there are some problems that need to be addressed. I wanted to open up the discussion and offer some ideas for potential solutions.

  1. Lack of automation means that the market system does not scale and places an undo burden on the development team.

I believe this leads to a lot more work than dev’s should have to do, and it is also one of the biggest reasons the stalls in other towns aren’t used given it would mean further complicating the already complex manual process that devs and players have to undertake.

I suggest a system that instead allows automated bidding for stalls and hands out tokens that can be used to grab a stall themselves. Even better would be a flat rate token purchase that allows individuals to get a stall but lasts only a week at a time instead of a month.

For now with low population that would work well, and an expired stall could have a “For Sale” icon above it to encourage people to grab them.

This would make it so that more people could enter the market easily and would help the game economy greatly by allowing marketplaces in the desert and rain-forest to be usable as well because there wouldn’t be a reason not to allow people to set up shop wherever they wanted.

  1. Data modeling markets as independent entities means it is possible for a person to be assigned to a stall and come into possession of all of the items that were in someone else’s store.

Marketplace data should instead be modeled as part of the character profile so that they can be freely switched from one stall to another without risk of losing all of their items.

If for some reason they don’t have a market anymore they should be able to go to a stall manager NPC or something similar to pull goods from their marketplace in the event they did not win a bid. This solution solves a bunch of issues around the transition time and moving people from one market to another by changing the way it is data modeled.

  1. There is no risk in putting a very high bid in the current system given that everyone pays the same price as the lowest winning bidder. This means that people with large amounts of dram will always be able to hold onto a stall by bidding very large amounts without ever actually risking very much dram.

If you absolutely need to have bidding, the bidding strategy needs to put some extra cost in place for people who want prime real estate. You shouldn’t be able to bid 400,000 dram and only pay 50k dram for the best spot. It should either be first come first serve like the token model above, or incur an actual risk to go for prime locations.

Now a model that has shown to work well at scale is a bazaar model. That would simply allow people to sell things at will incurring a tax rate on the items they sell. This model scales extremely well, and could be localized to give a similar feel to what is currently experienced.

Any of the changes I suggest above would have a dramatic positive impact on the games economy, and hopefully free up some of the impact to the development team and player community. I welcome any additional suggestions or discussion.

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You could modify the token approach and just pay dram directly to the stall manager. This could allow the price of stalls to fluctuate based on supply and demand, if there were multiple stalls empty then the price per stall could automatically drop.

You could also give the owner a period of a day to renew the stall rental before it’s opened back up to the public.

If you owned multiple stalls then you could have a manager menu where you could move items in between cities so you can keep relevant items in the cities where they are more likely to be purchased.

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Dude I love the supply and demand automated price idea! I think a user should be restricted to having a single market though. Data modeling the market to be 1:1 for a user would mandate it at least for simplicity and corruption control.

Automating the process for market stall management would make it a lot easier to participate in the economy. I support this, however it’s my experience that the majority of the player base would like to see an auction system put in place.

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Couldn’t agree more! :slight_smile:

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I think an auction house would be much more beneficial to the game as it would give everyone access rather than the around 17 players which currently have access to easily sell items

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Agreed. We need a global auction house. I honestly have never liked the current model we use. Just my opinion, But you know what they say about opinions lol

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I agree.

At least for now if they really want to keep the current stall system opening up the stalls in other cities and making it possible to buy based on supply and demand easily would hopefully help to make it so there are more then 10 to 20 players controlling the ability to easily buy and sell goods.

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@Riley_D Do you have any thoughts on any of the suggestions? I know the marketplace is something you have been managing closely, and I was hoping to discuss some of the ideas here, or at least here where the team envisions taking the market system so it is scalable and automated.

the lack of any mention about the auction stalls in the new roadmap is probably confirming that there arent going to be any market changes anytime soon…

I suspect this will be one of the topics on the survey they’re sending out.

The devs have mentioned ideas they’d like to implement, one of those was allowing stall owners to buy goods from players. I think this would be a big help to the economy and get more people participating in it.

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Okay sure, but why on Earth would you want to keep managing the system manually.

At best it’s a distraction, and at worst it’s a point of genuine conflict.

Also why have a limited number of people buying from the rest of the players when more people could just be selling.

Stall owners already buy goods from players directly now, but the system as it is just isn’t engaging enough of the games population in a positive way.

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I’ll see if I can find some old post, but the devs said they were going to automate the process. And I rarely buy goods form other players, it’s a real hassle, having the stalls be able to buy goods would have a massive impact on the economy.

but what does that mean? Basically setting a sell and a buy price for items they choose to carry?

It still doesn’t address the limited number of people who can run stalls, but I could see that at least being helpful. Still I stand by my recommended changes, and automated buying wouldn’t be a bad approach to add to existing model.

They have also said multiple times that if the population grows they will add more stalls in town. Right now, 19 stalls is more than enough to support the current population.

If you introduce the option to buying in stalls I think it will allow an easier control of the current game economy. I don’t think adding buying option to stalls at this moment is a good idea. I would rather have a free-for-all market, global system, when giving players the ability to buy items when not in-game.

At the same time however if the players compete at trying to buy items it would lead to a more accurate representation of the value of items. However given the limited market, in both population and players that have gotten stalls, I don’t think that it will be likely for a lot of the tradeable items.

The system definitely needs to be more streamlined. Both in terms of the UI, and losing and managing a stall. I would also like if they introduced some type of penalty for having bid in excess, however with more players joining, once we have ~20 rich people the price of stalls might not be worth it. For some reason I feel like the current stall system is not an adequate one once the ball gets rolling.

Oh! On a slightly different note, I (or we) would also be curious to know some of the intentions of the stalls. What I mean is, are they suppose to feel like real life trader stalls? Are they for guilds, for individual people? To get rid of excess supplies, to establish respectable trading chains (X’s Fish stall, Y’s Runesmithing Trade shop, Z’s Dragon Bonanza)?

I highly disagree, but that is because the stalls are player driven and 1 player per stall.

In my opinion, the system as i it is right now is not only bad from a gameplay point of view, but it also has maintenance time for both developers and players that would be better spent elsewhere.

For ease, i will quote a post i made in an earlier now sort of lost thread on how i see the system would work better for all parties involved:

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I kind of like the idea of leaving a lot at a npc and having a open in game bid for the items. So not a in game auction house, but a once per week/month real time auction with some in game help to see lots place bids.

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So like an NPC driven world event? That could work, as long as the other changes were in place to make more markets available.

@OndeTv I agree with most of your points, though I don’t know how much simpler the system you propose would make things.

Another cool idea I had was to have your character show up running the stall when you are logged out, instead of an NPC.