Runemage Changes (To Deter Fireball Spam)

Suggestions
#1

So lately, I’ve noticed that there’s a number of Runemages that will use shortcuts to rapidly cast ‘Fireball’, and other spells, at a super high succession rate, in order to melt mobs (and sometimes other players) at a lightning fast speed. And while this may be alright for the runemages, themselves, when used in dungeons or pvp, it can massively take away from everyone else’s experience, both literally and figuratively.

I’ve seen fireball spam make it so that tanks don’t even have time to get to the monsters before they are dead, preventing players from getting both exp and loot. When used in pvp, players are basically obliterated in an instant using this technique, creating a sort of, one trick meta, where if you aren’t using it, you don’t stand a chance.

I believe I have come up with a fair mechanic that could help prevent this abuse of a really great class.

A mana bar.
Mages weave magical energy to their bidding, but it is exhausting. Why not make a neat system that adds a little more flavor, while at the same time, a much needed balance.

Similar, if not exactly like the Scoundrel’s ammo meter, this would be depleted as a Runemage casted spells. Perhaps each spell would have it’s own set mana cost, making it so that a Runemage not only has to pace themselves, but also prioritize exactly what spell they’ll cast next. I can see their mana bar even replenishing at the same rate that the Scoundrel’s gun fills, and when it’s empty they are limited to the same ‘shot’ pacing as well. This would give a good counterbalance, where it would still be possible to spam spells, but eventually you would have to cool down.

It wouldn’t massively change the class, but would help balance things out.
Please let me know what you think of this idea. I’m very interested to see what the community and the developers think. Thank you.

2 Likes
#2

Classes are already pretty well balanced after the balance patch, runemages melting mobs really quickly is only really a thing in scaled dungeons and low shards, and is something the other DPS classes also can do to an extent.
While I’m not completely opposed to this idea(mainly cuz it would probably reduce runemage injury and may make fire/frost 3 actually viable) it would require the Devs to completely rebalance runemage and it would likely remove one of the most rewarding game mechanics of runemage.

7 Likes
#3

I’m not completely opposed to making changes, but as Asmund said, it would probably require a major rebalance. The main reason I don’t main Runemage is because I don’t see the point in developing carpal tunnel (I’m lucky that I haven’t yet as it is) for a game. (Runemages are currently limited by skill, device, and physical capabilities, which is great for the Runemage, but might not be that great for other players).

3 Likes
#4

I love the mechanics of the Runemage and I would find a mana-bar inelegant.
The only limitation on Runemage casting is personal skill, and I LOVE IT!

I really feel like I am learning to cast spells lol

5 Likes
#5

Yeah, I agree that it is definitely nice, but the problem is that runemages do so much more damage than other classes (from a long range) as a result that it is very easy to be malicious as a runemage and purposefully deny other players experience/loot. I do feel like a few spells could use a serious change though since I’ve noticed that most runemages completely ignore certain spells because the ‘harder spells’ do less dps than multiple ‘easier spells’.

I do think that runemages need a bit of rebalancing as a result of that, but it probably isn’t worth the effort for the devs right now.

#6

We just finished a rebalance. Scoundrels and Rangers can pull nearly the same numbers. Obviously not as high due to the skill requirement, but those two classes easily kill at a range just as well

#7

Yeah, Shamans still can’t really compete with the exp hoarding that some Runemages do though. (Had one runemage skywalk to shortcut their way through parts of a dungeon and just blasted everything before most of the party could reach the enemies.

Also, to clarify, when I say rebalance, I don’t mean making the Runemage’s dps go up/down, but to make certain spells that aren’t used or are rarely used actually viable enough to be considered for use in combat instead of just being a combat starter or not being used at all.

#8

I wish something like a mana bar could be done but implemented like a stamina bar that scoundrels have, so that spamming would not be possible.

There’s not much skill needed to spam fireball which takes that whole part of the equation out. It’s literally an oval.

In too many dungeons I have a runemage solo all trash mobs before the rest of the group can get to them, effectively stealing upwards of 20k combined EXP from the other 4 members of the group. It’s ridiculous. They basically use a group to tank the boss mobs while they take all the trash exp/loot.

Now I just don’t do dungeons if the first group of enemies is killed by a runemage solo spamming fireball. I just leave and reque.

#9

it takes a lot of practice and time to get that oval right, with good consistency and speed, your statement here is just plain incorrect.

dungeon mobs don’t give nearly that much exp, the amount the other party members miss out on is negligible.

5 Likes
#10

The oval doesn’t take long at all to get good at because I did it, and it didn’t take long. Hold elbow against side to keep your drawing flat, look down slightly to align drawing area with head gaze 2d drawing plane, draw oval and press A twice, repeat. It took about 2 days of trying and I had a good spam down. Can’t do any other spell but it doesn’t matter.

Dungeon mobs do give that much exp.
Broken Halls
31 mobs
avg. 130 exp per mob (conservatively low) = 4,030 exp
4,030 exp x 4 other party members = 16,120 exp

That’s using one of the lowest populated dungeons with one of the lowest exp rewards from a mob and not counting boss exp. If you think those numbers are wrong please run them yourself.

Those two facts aside, it takes the fun out of a dungeon when one person wants to solo it and use the group for a boss tank. That alone is enough.

edit If you think it’s hard to find a tank for dungeon que this is also a large reason for that coming from a forced tank main.

#11

what about shaman? is that worse than all other dps?

#12

Shaman doesn’t pull nearly as much at maximum, but it’s easier to hit higher numbers.

Essentially, less skill required means less total damage, but easier to hit the class’s maximum.

#13

I think it takes some skill and practice to spam fireball… and a lot of skill and practice to spam it 3 times per second…

But…

As a workaround for you, why not just take really bad mages with you?

#14

Okay now you ONLY have to show us how you do the oval 2x a second or better and I believe you it is easy for you :wink: (Oooh while running forwards at the same time of-course)

Interesting fact. :sweat_smile:

I think the problem here is more like jerkiness of the player than OP. The fact that people don’t get scaled down to the exact same power in scaled dungeons says enough. If the class would be lowered alot, it can still if the player wants, run past boss 1 and start killing trash while the whole other party stays behind because they have no clue what is going on. The problem is the player, not the power. They don’t accidentally be there early and nuke the enemies. It costs some hardcore dedication to run fast to the next group and keep casting as fast as you can to kill as fast as you can. It is done on purpose. Not accidental oops I am too OP.

3 Likes
#15

not entirely correct.
In a party, the exp from each mob is split equally, then scaled. Also there are more than 31 mobs in BH, there are 36.

Went and got the exp numbers for the normal non-elite mobs in dungeons:
If the mob is white star(4+ levels above you), you get 627 exp solo, so 627/5x36 = 4514
If the mob is red star(2-3 levels above you), you get 502 exp solo, so 502/5x36 = 3614
If the mob is pink star(± 1 level of you), you get 376 exp solo, so 376/5x36 = 2707
If the mob is yellow diamond(2-3 levels below you), you get 256 exp, so 256/5x36 = 1843
if the mob is green triangle(4+ levels below you), you get 73 exp, so 15x36 = 526

So if a runemage goes and kills everything in broken halls without letting the other party members get hits, then the runemage will get 2628 exp from all the mobs. In the case that all the other party members are level 16 or lower the rest of the party would loose out on 18k exp total(4514 each),
if the rest of the party was level 19-21 they would loose out on 10.8k exp total(2707 each),
if the rest of the party was level 24+ the rest would loose out on 2.1k exp total(526 each).

Definitely more than I originally thought, but the amount lost varies depending on the levels of the rest of the party, and it’s highly unlikley that none of the other party members don’t get in combat with any of the mobs, they only need to hit them once and the healer only needs to heal the runemage.

2 Likes
#16

Just a quick note about the pvp side of things. It sounds like you’re saying that Runemages are op in PVP because of fireball spam letting runemages obliterate other players. Just a reminder that Scoundrel can one shot cloth gear with a charge shot and a flame card, and can even one shot leather under the right conditions. Not to mention that runemages have to stand still to get fireball spam that fast, (unless they’re TP casting, but that’s another conversation entirely). Runemages definitely aren’t OP in PVP right now, and honestly aren’t even the best class, as a mediocre scoundrel can easily kill a good mage.

As far as PVE goes, I can see where you’re coming from, but I don’t think a mana bar is the right way to go about it. First, Unless Runemage got a huge buff to spell damage, it would completely destroy the class’s dps. Also, it would make the class incredibly boring! The reason an ammo bar works for scoundrel is because it has seperate mechanics that make the class more interesting, and have something else to do, i.e. cards and curve shots. A mana bar on Runemage would just make players shoot as many spells out as they can, then wait for mana and repeat, which is not very fun imo.

Overall, I’m not against Runemages getting a nerf to how many spells per second they can shoot, but this is not the right way to do it. Not to mention the backlash that would come with a big change like this, just look at how the cap to rapidity ranger affected them.

1 Like
#17

Main reason I’m pro cap is due to health reasons. My belief is that a game should not encourage players to harm themselves to be ‘better’ at the game. (I bruised myself playing Paladin as it is, but that was because someone moved an object into my playspace and I had to swing into said space to pull off my aoe). Right now, runemage and warrior are both classes that can potentially cause injury to players trying to spam spells/combos.

I personally think no matter how bad the backlash might be, safety should be more important. Unless the devs are making a death game where the players will die if their characters die or the game is actually us controlling people in a remote location to prevent an invasion from an outside force. Then I guess it might be more important to be able to spam even if it means injury. But I doubt that is the case.

I definitely do agree that a mana bar might not be the best way to do things because of the rebalancing needed. My personal suggestion was for the spells (and talents) to be rebalanced to deter fireball 2 spam.

#18

Thank you for checking the work. It’s worse than I thought. I’ve had many runs that everyone else get 0 hits except on boss mobs. Generally when a mage spamming fireball takes out the first group the party stops, watches, and a few leave and a few gawk. Happened many, many, many times. As a bard healer good luck healing the mage to get your exp/loot. 3 secs on your heal tick mobs are dead. Tank getting exp/loot? Nah you’re stuck moving slow in combat mage is fighting. Same with other dps to catch up.

#19

Also, as bard, the regen buff doesn’t always cause you to enter combat (it only seems to do so if it actually heals and even then). So you have to use one of your crescendos to heal for the credit. This takes time to reach the target depending on distance in addition to the long charge times.

Not sure if that is a bug or intended. It is fairly useful for the slime boss since it lets you move around quickly until you are hit, attack, or use a healing crescendo, but not sure if that is how it is supposed to work.

(mallets have limited range, so it wouldn’t help with initiating combat with a rusher)

#20

Just a quick one as it’s unrelated to the topic. You can throw your bard mallets to initiate combat as well