Scoundrel Overworld PvP

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#21

This thread was clearly never about this. I don’t know why you focus on this particular aspect where mages are 1 of a possible 8 classes in the game that this applies to.

Clearly Cam is trying to show that the amount of burst damage a scoundrel can do to any given class in the overworld makes it fairly imbalanced in general.

note that; I was asked to come and help with the production of the video as a fully geared +4 mage who happened to also have a vita potion on. This research has nothing to do with me other than I was asked to act out a scenario.

Not possible to bait a scoundrel at the same time as taking on 2-3 others in a real world PvP situation with all the distractions going on. There are definitely ways to bait in a 1v1 situation though… But we are generally talking about balance here though. Not every player is in the 1% of skill to be able to handle a 3 second burst shooting from a scoundrel.

#22

That is actually an interesting point, it is easy to forget that those Mages and many of the rangers have played their class for well over a year (more if they did the alpha, beta tests). Even half a year into the launch of Old Orbus mages in general were a lot worse than they are now due to more practice and knowledge on the class.

#23

Sorry to disturb that homogenous, ever-repeating chorus of ohhhh-noone-practiced it enough yet (of all the people not touchin the class meh… ) but I got 500 h or more into the scoundrel rn and play with rangers having far less - cuz they weren’t around in the beta -, doin far more dmg in each and every log… I myself can do more dmg with my blue bow, actually, than with my +4 scoundrel and I sucked at ranger, playing it for a year, yes, but like once a week or whenever I could not heal :D.

You can tell it is a “high-skill” class and everyone needs to practice it more so it can show for a year or so, I guess, and it sounds good, but then perhaps, slowly, someone also could realize that mages are naturally far above (no real skill cap), rangers have been BUFFED, technically, a few weeks after reborn-release, receiving a boost of 30% to keep up with Mages and well Scoundrels - also a pretty logical thing - dropped to the bottom due to this, no matter what they all do.

That MIGHT be also a reason apart form the very very high skill-requirements no one of course CAN reach after two months :smiley: (seriously? Oh come on… abc and others had superstrong players in the first weeks of the game; I saw mages becoming OP already in that exact time, two months is more than enough if you play a couple h per day and got a talent for shortcuts.)

But yea it is an ever-cycling discussion which won’t be resolved anytime soon until anyone has even a need for scoundrels. Yea it got a 5% buff for the party but that’s it with group assistance, not sure if that can cope with the rather poor dmg. So far every mage or ranger is better in pve imo so why even care much.

#24

We appreciate the PvE rant in the PvP Scoundrel thread but we can also make a separate thread for this.

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#25

Problem is, for the named reasons, the topics are closely connected imo … and once you discuss PvP it’s hardly possible to not make general statements about the class - which I reacted to.
But yea, the topic should go back to PvP, slowly and I don’t see much of an issue treating that separately, technically, as well (though I don’t find the vid with 1 person harvesting this and that and not even looking or caring very convincing or typical, sorry, a real bg experience would be better).

#26

Two months is not that long, ask any mages starting out at that time and you will realise that after 2 months mages were absolutely horrible (compared to today) and affliction 2 was something of a high level skill along with frost 3 to even be able to cast at all.
Most mages you see doing PvP regularly have been doing mage for a long time.
I feel like there will always be classes stronger in PvP than others like in other MMOs however balance is a bit skewed at them moment. In all fairness its better than it used to be, still not where we want to be though.

#27

This whole balance-thing, like, major nerfs or tweaks on classes should’ve been done in the Beta, the latest and then let it all run for a while to give people time to get used to all… all it does right now is lead to frustration and yea, there will always be classes stronger or easier than some others and if you really wanna win and did not have the time to practice mages you will switch to that class.

I saw waves of mostly-pallies in bgs at first, when rumours said Paladin is OP, then mostly-scoundrels and if they nerf that then the next wave will perhaps be mostly-ranger or what not; until people get bored and try with a supposedly weaker class.

In loosely organized bgs I don’t see so many issues with that, actually, since everyone can switch anytime with not too much costs, got same gear instantly etc.; in the overworld all is unequal af anyway, due to people teaming up, having better or worse gear/weapons, being engaged in mob fights or activities, not paying attention etc. the reasons you loose a fight there will mostly not be that you play the “wrong” class anyways, there’s plenty others…

#28

It took about 38 frames which is about 1.3 seconds to kill someone in their back in that video example. This is when someone is attacked in their back while mostly being in the overworld a no way in hell you react on time. Also want to note that a Mage is suppose to be weak and can die fast so that is also inaccurate as an example.

But that is not accurate because first strike is used and 15+ seconds of preparation + backstab. This can also be achieved with the Shaman in someones back only will take 2-3 seconds before they can attack though (then insta kill) instead of instantly attacking and killing in 1.3 seconds.

Also when you miss you wasted 3+ seconds. And need to charge again. So even though less penalty then other classes on the miss you still waste time.

Lastly, I don’t know for mage and ranger but if they are first strike and do their charged piercing/poison or fireball 3 + 1 other shot/spell, would that not give the same result too? (Not 100% sure about the following statement because first strike is in play: but also a charged poison without globes and weakspots will also do more damage then a charged piercing shot, even though will take more time because of the DoT time ticking)

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#29

First strike doesn’t work on ranger’s charged shots, it was nerfed because of the insane damage, yet scoundrels can do more than that with a charged flame and can use first strike on it…

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#30

Ooh ya forgot about the first strike removal :man_facepalming:

#31

In pve as rapidity ranger, having not played ranger in a dungeon before this, I did about 15k damage, and then in my second reborn dungeon i did about 18k. First time ever playing scoundrel I did about 28k. Literally 0 time played in scoundrel almost doubled my super high play time ranger, even if I was a little rusty since I have been playing the other tank

#32

I play Scoundrel and if you get super close and don’t hop just right you can easily take a few instant spells to the back or a charged piercing if they get a better “back position” than you. Depends heavily on the player and I think getting those shots off is more challenging for classes other than Scoundrel. I’m hoping enough players can work on positioning to outplay other classes as I’ve seen too many players sit like a turret and think they stand a chance. The second you stop moving you’re dead.

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#33

(Kamina) You mean dps, not damage*

In my opinion comparing damage of beginners in a class is useless unless the difference is extreme. Ppl are very different in how fast they learn things or never learn things. I really think the maximum possible attribution (e.g. dps, utility) and a decent possibility (with skill, and time sink) of reaching close to that maximum is way more important in my opinion.

#34

Except that with my ranger test I still have around a year and a half experience under my belt and the only thing that change for the class was weak spots, vs complete noob scoundy

#35

Yes and those weak spots make a rapidity ranger weak xD (serious though…)

What also might have been part of the problem was you probably weren’t used to the bosses yet when you were on your ranger? (guessing here) Even though you have a year of practice I know with a normal lvl 30 bow you should have had more dps…

#36

The buff to rangers equated to about 12% damage increase, not 30%.

#37

Oh yeah forgot to mention I have a +4 bow… although it kind balances because I also have a +4 gun

Also I was pretty used to the bosses since I had already gone through tanking them

#38

So it sounds to me like first strike should be removed for scoundrel as well, if it is removed for ranger. Also, that should probably be documented somewhere :slight_smile:

#39

nice video of J standing still and taking shots

#40

If the devs are reading this: is the phenomenon where the bullets curve if you slide while shooting straight unintended, or just something that happens because the gun is, in fact, moving relative to the world?