Scoundrel tileset puzzle, impossible to solve

Currently it is impossible to make good scoundrel tilesets. At-least I can not figure out how to make it work out. This is a long shot because it will cost alot of time and thinking for someone to figure it out, and frankly I am not expecting anyone to survive what I am about to write, even the devs, so click away now if you want to live :joy: … If someone would be able to find a solution though, congratz on the 500k dram I will give you :stuck_out_tongue: :wink:


  • To do an efficient curved shot without losing dps you will have to do your curve with a charged shot. Otherwise the curve movement will at-least lose you 0.2 seconds of movement before bullet release. (tested, and most of the times more unless you really try-hard)
  • The bullet after a curve shot needs to be also a charged shot. Otherwise you will miss almost certain. (try it on the boss dummy… you will miss more then half even after practicing for a long time)
  • No healer tiles, having a healer being your personal bitch is not going to happen. it is not practical. In the end if we are talking about best dps you want to do any content without a healer anyway. And that is the goal of tilesets, increasing max dps…
  • You have to select the 3 bullet weakness talent. Selecting that talent gives every dps a 5% boost. Which means with the default 4 dps in a dungeon your own is 5% boosted and others too. That is a total of 20% dps boost (relative to that single person, not group 20% boost). Remove the 5% boost you get as advantage from having a 4 bullet charge and it would be effectively 15% boost again (tested and calculated). So you need for the 4 bullet charge tilesets more then 15% more dps to fix the 3 bullet charge… that would be impossible to beat.
  • Jumping back and forth in the fight to change timing is no option because any scoundrel rotation is too short for stamina to be equalized.
  • Tilesets need to be possible to stay up for at-least 3/4th of the time attacking. Less then that I would consider shitty tilesets.
  • No tilesets that trigger with like 5% or less boosting… (alot of interference)
  • The card rotation of cheating back as much poison as possible needs to be applied or too much dps will be lost.
  • The bullets in the chamber need to balance out and never get full or empty to keep up max dps.

Boundaries of the class:

  • A charged shot takes 0.2 seconds to start charging. Every bullet charging up takes 0.5 seconds. So the max 3 bullet shot takes 1.7 seconds. And a 2 bullet shot 1.2 seconds.
  • Fast fired bullets take 0.2 seconds.
  • A curved shot will travel the same horizontal speed unless you go past the 90 degree curve (unlike ranger arrows), making it almost impossible to change timing with curving. It will still be same timing.

Logic of the tiles:

  • Burning a card gives a ‘F’ tile. Stashing or placing a card does nothing.
  • Poison card will be the only interesting enough card that gives a tile often enough, lets call it the ‘P’ tile.
  • Shooting a bullet with a 1 to 2 second gap in between will give a ‘Z’ tile. (relative to hit target)
  • Shooting a bullet with a 2 to 3 second gap in between will give a ‘I’ tile. (relative to hit target)
  • (the BITCHY part about all this) There is a global 1 second timer that will look how many bullets landed on an enemy in that 1 second timeframe. Shooting 2 bullets fast within the timeframe will give a ‘M’ tile. Shooting 3 bullets fast will give a ‘N’ tile. BUT expect that the bullets have a 0.2 second time gap which will mean if you are unlucky (you can not know the global timeframe) you will have 1 bullet land on 0.9 seconds of the timer and the second bullet on 1.1 second. Which will mean you will get no tile trigger. Same logic for 3 hits per second (will become ‘M’ instead). About 80% chance on getting ‘M’ on 2 bullets and about 60% chance on getting ‘N’ on 3 bullets. All the other times you won’t get what you want.

Lets go to what I tried so far which had any chance on becoming something.

Solution with poison card and burn effect
You will get poison an average of 3/7th of the cards if you do the cheat trick well. Sadly grabbing a card will take at-least 4.2 seconds (almost always longer). A tileset of 3 stays up for only 4 seconds… Which means already if you make 5 tilesets with poison in them you will have not much more then 50% uptime, but you need to go crazy lengths. I did that but is not needed to post here because in the end conclusion is too much downtime. You even get gaps of like 4 cards no poison so you get nothing.

My best possible solution that failed
Delay 1.7 second 3 bullet shot to a 2.0+ second shot (losing some dps sadly…) to get the ‘I’ tile. From there build the following rotation:

  • 2.0+ second charge shot (curve this if needed)
  • 1.2 second charge shot (to balance out the bullets in the chamber, that is why not 1.7 second)
  • 0.2 second shot
  • 0.2 second shot
    Gives the following tiles guaranteed but randomized if ‘N’ or ‘M’ will proc:
    I Z M or I Z N.

Making tiles which are:

  • IZM
  • ZMI
  • IZN
  • ZNI
  • NIZ (shitiest tileset)
    This will give an almost 100% uptime. Unless you get M alot. Odds are in ‘N’ favor though with a 60% chance of getting ‘N’.

Why does it fail? Because lucky buggy Orbus decides to strike and kill this plan with a bug(?). Lets call it the interference time bug. Any tileset longer then 6 seconds of time will not trigger. This is normal and not the bug. Normally it would just try trigger it with tiles that are closer together, but these tiles are so close on the 6 second mark it just doesn’t trigger at all sometimes at random. You will get IZMIZN as tiles and you will see tileset ‘IZM’ trigger followed by ‘IZN’ not trigger. Even though you proved that IZN happened in the triggered tiles. Basically this:
IZMIZN (the tiles)
IZ_ _ _N (the tileset IZN having a too long time span of around 6 seconds. It won’t grab _ _ _IZN because the first IZ was earlier. Another strange behaviour of tilesets xD)
And again we lose dps for delaying the 1.7 second shot to 2.0+ seconds which is really bad too.

Solution with alternative rotation removing interference
Instead of alternating between ‘M’ and ‘N’ by shooting 3 fast bullets, you spread out the two charged shots like this:

  • 2.0+ second charge shot (curve this if needed)
  • 0.2 second shot
  • 1.2 second charge shot (to balance out the bullets in the chamber, that is why not 1.7 second)
  • 0.2 second shot

Immediate red flag, how you will shoot the second bullet after the charge so fast without missing? You won’t. If you build all 5 tilesets around the ‘M’ tile though with ‘M’ only not spawning 20% of the time you will balance this problem out by shooting after the curve the 1.2 second bullet shot instead. Now you thought you were done, BUT now you will have to shoot 2 bullets of 0.2 second to get the chamber back to normal. Which will trigger ‘N’ 60% of the time andddd game over. You just lost all tilesets a whole rotation more then half of the times you curve.

Okey welp, that is what I tried and more things that were death ends way faster then these. Gl if anyone will ever try…

Thoughts on how I think this would ever be possible to fix

  • Having grabbing a card from the deck trigger the ‘F’ tile. Not burning it. So placing, grabbing and storing all generate the same tile to use for consistent tilesets. Which will with trouble give about 80% uptime on 3 tilesets.
  • Other solution is fixing the 1 second timer that counts bullets be relative to the last shot. So if nothing has been hit for 1+ second, that hit will be the start of the timing tile. This solution will also help out ranger problems and other class wonkieness with hits per second too.

I think tiles are well overdue a relook from the Dev Dudes and this definitely shows it

Do the Dev Dudes get 500k off you if that’s the best solution? :joy:


Yes they will get get the 500k (helping the economy lol) and I will give Robert his kidnapped dragon back! :stuck_out_tongue: :wink:


Thanks again for this Scott! Can also add the next few grinder drops I get to the pot (i.e. kitty shoulders, pot-helm, fancy-harvester). :heart:

Items collected for the reward (so far):
Harvester 3


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