Spell casting forgiveness

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1

It is harder for some to cast spells than others, i have played games in the past where after successful casts the spells themselves cast more often and less fizzle.

With the current measures one has to be almost perfect to cast a spell, but with what I am suggesting… The more success of a spell the better chances of casting.

Not just any spell either, the forgiveness should be level based, and should apply stricter measures to perfection the higher level spell is cast.

example
I suggest that if one can cast fireball 2 at the appropriate level then the perfection diminishes for casting said spell, and as one levels more, in casting on said level those perfection methods dwindle yet more… kind of like spell casting leveling up.

As of right now what i can see in the game is simple, every class levels up but spell casting and this makes becoming a rune mage hard.

The reason i say this could be an issue, is not a lot of people have VR at the moment, it still has a chance to really take off. Orbus is a great VR experience, but a lot of rune mages will leave and find other VR experiences if they do not like the other classes in orbus, or they just felt that casting was too hard.

I realize that many are wanting to keep this hard because they want to be “elite or Pro” at it, but that is probably a handful of players vs the success of the entire game.

Realistically the spell casting is going to have to become at least a little forgiving or the same problem with every MMO is going to develop… You have about 3 guilds who can do it all and the rest who come and go “very fast at this point I might add”, which are potential clients of the orbus creators, because other games are taking something like this as a hindrance in consideration.

It is just a thought, and although it is great others can do it now, the vital role is longevity of the game, orbus is special and i want to see it have a huge success

2

Actually, most of the spells are forgiving, you just need to make sure some of the details are correct, but other than that, as long as you dont make a huge mistake, the spells are going to work. True, it takes time to learn how to cast them fast, but with practice you can get the most out of them, like one mage in my fellowship is like a machinegun if it’s about casting lvl 2 spells lmao

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3

I understand your concept and the idea could be nice but personally I like the current concept being if you are level 20 you’ve had to work to get there and by then you are at a sufficient at basic spells and working on mastering the more challenging ones.

The class is difficult and it takes hours of practice before you should step out into a fight and be truly effective against enemies. This is partially why I’ve begun to adjust spell concepts and create new ways of casting, some are difficult but quick, others are just different approaches that may Work better for certain players than others. I also teach spells in highsteppe regularly which most newer players appreciate and actually switch from the class they were playing to enjoy the challenge of casting because it is very rewarding when you learn something new.

There are certain spells that I feel could use a little more margin for error but it’s partially because I haven’t put in the time to finding the focal points to be successful with it. There is more foregiveness than you may think.
Check out SirAndrew’s casting of frost 3, he has some pretty intense shaking when he draws but he has the focal points covered and it can still be cast.

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4

They did an enormous amount of testing and rebalancing of the casting system. The more “forgiving” you make it, the more the system is going to let you cast spells but it also radically increases getting unintended spells. The current tolerances on spell casting reflect the best balance of those two aspects based on over a year of experimenting. (Edit: meant to reply to original poster)

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5

@Draven That is more of a bug that can not be fixed easily because the spell system just works this way. I would not call that a reason why we can’t make the spells easier. More of an algorithm choice that resulted in a bug that decreased the flexibility of the current detection system. And everything is fixable, but it probably will take too much (unnecessary) time to make that happen. And IMO it doesn’t need to be fixed. As long as the threshold stays high enough there is nothing wrong anyway.

About the original post. Yes a Runemage is a bit more demanding than other classes in skill but I would not say that a good Runemage is an ‘elite or Pro’. A lot of people can be a Runemage. If it would be godlike hard to do it would have never been the most played class.

I don’t think the long term fate of OrbusVR will hang on making the Runemage more accessible for all players. And if those players you are talking about don’t like the other 3 classes either, than those players clearly don’t like the current OrbusVR combat classes. Making the mage easier will maybe bring those type of players back into the game, but it will definitely get other type of players out of the game.

An alternative suggestion would be making a new class that has roughly the same ‘feelings’ as the Runemage but without the high skill. Now we can get both type of ‘magic’ players into the game :slight_smile:

6

I don’t think there should be a massive change to the ease of spell use. More leniency to casting makes, as was said, the probability of getting unintended spells higher. Already I occasionally get affliction when spamming fire2 or a random shield on ice2.

I understand the frustration though. Aff2 and ice3 still evade me even with Decoys shortcuts. No matter how square or perfect they get drawn, poof. It could be tracking, server lag, latency, or my choice of vr gear. There is room for improvement, yes, but too much will result in a mess.

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7

as i understand the pioneers would feel someone “jaded” for all their hard work, its the survivabilty of the game that needs to be in question, not just that one or two excel.

That being said, the ease of casting comes with practice much like it has for the pioneers is my initial statement, which i still feel less fizzles should be forgiving based on successful casts.

My understanding is that this game wants to include raids and higher group content… chain casting frost 3 might be impressive to be the only one to do it but again we have one elitist or pro gamer and many who are literally just stuck on ignorance or skill.

Its great that the devs listen and its great that there is a bit of a consensus in the community.

I personally think we have to think about the greater good of the game… I am casting fine, chain casting in fact… but being a member of elite guilds in the past has taught me one thing… games die fast in early stages if they are unforgiving, regardless of concept…

a great game is now being revamped as we speak that will take MMOs to the next level, and i assure you VR is more of a fad right now than something that will last if play-ability does not improve.

that is not just orbus, that is all VR games… it could go belly up tomorrow because not enough players are investing in A the machines to run the programs or B the hardware itself… that being said we need all the players we can get on the servers so it makes it worth the devs time to profit off of such a great game…

making casting more difficult than any class trucates the types of players that will play orbus… The only way the devs can tell if their current system is working as far as revenue is concerned is see how many people that are new log in every day and how many that are never logging in again… that gives the projection for the game.

I kind of think of it like this, though there are the loyal, they should not be unrewarded, but without the new there will be no one to stay loyal…

Before i was helped by some of the newer players who were also struggling with casting, i almost gave it up, not because it was hard but because i thought it was kind of boring to learn a class which such a high learning curve…

If the game introduces a cleric class this will get much worse, which being an MMO i see that happening quite easily

8

I believe this should continue to occur also at lower levels… we need to think in roleplay when it comes to casting or learning any class… a low level mage botches spells occasionally… i personally like this idea of mixed spell casting and it keeps the devs from having to focus more on bugs that will actually make sense to a lower level runemage

9

I completely agree it doesnt need to be fixed, even merlin himself could have done this when he first learned to become a mage

10

as stated i dont think it is determined but anything could affect the outcome, and if one single person was the make or break, that person being a rune mage or not i dont think that is a probability i would consider taking.

It is great to see a lot of feedback on all this…

11

First, there is another damage dealing class. Also you cannot resurrect in combat. Teleportation is nice but with a teleport to home and a (currently) moderately sized world you can get by with only airship travel or walking. From my experience in MMO’s it falls within the “convenience” range rather than essential. So some of the, “make rune mage more accessible or the game may fail” talk seems a bit overblown.

That said, the first tier of spells should be easier. That Fire 2 and Frost 2 seem to be the most forgiving to cast is a problem. You should be able to walk out of Tinny’s cave slinging at least one damage spell with some consistency. Just to prove to players how the mechanic works and that they aren’t bugged or doing something wrong.

Beyond that though, I love the current system and how frustrating it is at times and how satisfying it is when you start to get it down. That you can have others explain all the spells (or watch video’s / see pictures online) even at level 1 is odd. I don’t dislike it, but it’s so different from progression in other games it’s hard to get over. I’m always torn between wanting to help out new rune mages and not wanting to reveal “spoilers”…

One thing that I think would help is that rather than the pink lines, where you start your first stroke should be purple, then as you move towards you it turns red then orange, and away from you it turns blue then green. Giving you a very fast visible queue that you have failed to draw “flat”, which I expect accounts for the majority of failed spell casting. Giving you guidance on line-work… I’m not sure. The only thing I can think of is a check box on your quest book which would then overlay a spell glyph in front of you for you to trace and practice. This would give players an incentive to find those glyph pillars out in the world as well.

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12

I would maybe add a new class. Neat idea but with poor penmanship I probably will never play runemage. I would however love a ranged caster to play. Don’t want to take away from it though, thumbs up for new concepts.

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13

I think a compromise here might be to increase the tolerance level on the flat plane without making the spellcasting forgiveness tolerance easier. That way runemages get some relief when looking around while casting but it won’t make spells bleed into each other. At least as a starting point to alleviating areas that make rune-casting uncomfortable.

Complexity to rune-casting can always be added in the future to push the skill ceiling.

14

I think just the beginner t1 frostbolt should be made easier. The rest should stay the same. If someone wants an easier class to play, go play archer.

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15

I think the mage is a class you likely don’t learn alone or fast, which is not a bad thing since if you got nothing to do anymore you still can improve your mage skills also it is a nice way to bridge waiting times until party is full or there etc. I am really, really worried about being a sucky level 20 mage soon ;), but I learned a lot from others already which makes things easier.
Now for leveling a few basic spells are enough, shield, frost 2 and icelance, namely, the frost 2 shortcut ( p ) makes it even easier. The spam-practice does not come from the small mobs, though, at least not for me, but either from spamming on a dummy or on bosses, so there is hope to greatly improve once Tradu Mines are reached.

Yet there is a few spells, namely affliction 2, where I am not sure if I ever improve or if they are just really coded too strictly. I am using affl 2 all the time to pull, but 20-30% fail and I don’t see at all why, also a shortcut never worked out, so yea while most of spells seem to be a matter of practice some perhaps could be tweaked further.
Interesting video @Decoy, I watched yours like 5 times and never could get one single frost 3 with the p :smile: , perhaps the messy-p works out… Yet another thing is, fb 3 and frost 3 are nice to have, but I don’t see the advantage, even if I’d only fail 50% - which would need hours and hours of practice for sure - they are still nowhere near the dmg I can do with the faster tier 2, perhaps that is something also to be considered or changed, most mages I saw are using tier 2 for bosses and that’s it.

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16

I used to play a game, that although it was frustrating, it helped me understanding in what it truly meant to “roleplay a mage”.

I started out a young wizard, my first few casts ended up in me running away fast from the very weak monster i attempted to kill (for the greater good of course)…

Curiosity begins to cast a spell (this was the emote in the chat bar)… Your spell fizzles… Your spell fizzles… Your spell fizzles… You cast fireball… You have gotten better at spell casting (1)

The emotes kept going until at some point the fizzling got less and less, then i reached a top tier spell casting of 350 where a random fizzle was still there but hardly existed at all and i could recovery from quite easily.

My point is very simple, if i have to become a perfect mathematician on the x y and z axis you are right, a mage is not for me… If this becomes like star wars galaxies online where everyone wants to be a jedi but cannot “unless they are just that good”, then orbus is not the game for me either.

I am sure there will be other games out there if need be, and honestly they dont even have to be VR. A good game is simply a good game, a great one is a great one.

I do hope orbus turns out to become a great game, but right now, it needs players… The group content alone makes it a diminishing return of how far one can get…

Thankfully the community of the whole is very helpful, that is the second great thing i love about orbus, the first will always be… it gets me out of my chair and moving not vegetating while i enjoy my favorite past time, which is playing a video game… which is my reward for working two jobs weekly of a combined 80 weeks an hour… I am a casual gamer… so ill keep looking for a great casual game if this has no intention of becoming one.

17

There is so much to say, sadly i dont have all the answers. I would love to sit down with the devs and talk with them about what I have witnessed in almost 35 years of gaming (not just online gaming but back when i played atari at the young age of 5.

I know that as a player i have done my part, given the feedback that i felt when i experienced it. I hope my input helps.

I was trying to keep it 100%

If i took a pie and gave 15% of that pie the label “Experienced pioneers”…

id have 85% of the pie that was left of my market… Id label them new players

Eventually my 15% of experienced players would leave (Life in general is going to happen, sadly most negative things will remove players from great games i.e: Divorce, death, suicide… but some positive things for the individual will also take players away i.e: Marriage, children, and my favorite and education). So lets say I am right and the devs do lose the “pioneers”, and as and they manage to keep close to 1% at the most if any. And im being optimistic of outcomes since I recently left a game i faithfully played for over 20 years… Now im constantly relying on my 85% to replenish my player base… because the 15% is never coming back… and if they do, great, but i cannot plan the success of my company on ifs.

Without spell forgiveness few of those will become mages IMHO… something that is too much of a challenge, will be easily discarded by the majority. Only those who like a challenge will endeavor to overcome.

Just my two cents, and honestly, to me it makes sense, but i understand that the community wants to see it a certain way, so ill just accept what comes, and hope for the best as far as playability goes

18

i think this is great, but those lines are still very straight… what is your advice on a person with say parkinson disease? they cant even draw straight lines at all… in fact the straight lines would remain jagged. Such a person could never play a mage. So if a mage was the “creme de la creme” of orbus, they could never achieve such greatness.

To me this alone is a great video of how one does not have to be exactly perfect, but it does not address how one who cannot help who they are can never achieve the goals they should be able to.

Personally i think the spells themselves should be harder to cast at certain levels, and as casting becomes more successful a counter grants spell forgiveness.

again I dont have all the answers, id just like to play the game without having to be the best artist, or even a messy one.

19

I have noticed that even the current system is bugged, which makes this even worse to try and troubleshoot as a player.

its like trying to solve a math equation with multiple solutions… if one does not know how to do the math, then one does not know if the solution is correct, and when it is correct because one does not know how to do the math, they have no validation said math was done right.

I kind of like the way bows level up, so it would kind of be cool to see wands do the same thing, as each level of the wand improved based on successful spells that would allow more leniency for the spell in question, or the wands ability to cast it.

I also think it would kind of be cool to get a “Good Job” animation of the right rune image after a successful cast. So say i cast affliciton 2 when it was done right the rune would light up where i cast it right and where it was cast wrong the rune would light up and show me the error as well.

currently there is no getting better other than guessing and hoping. Which to me is not forgiving at all.

Again thankfully we have a community that is willing to help, and that is one of the greatest things about orbus.

I could do without all the competition, but i just ignore that aspect of it.

I am biased in that aspect… I was the kid who grew up who couldnt afford the “new air jordans”… I had no way of ever attaining “air Jordans” as a kid, but i felt somewhat like others wanted me to feel inferior despite my ability to attain them.

So in short i compete with no one, and refuse to ever do so

20

What are the “focal points” of Frost 3?