I like this idea too!
I have found with end game your really dont need to swing that much, as long as you get the first hit on its actually pretty difficult to pull a single target off the warrior. Swarms can be more of an issue but meh, positioning and horn discipline can save your arm a lot of hurt.
Adding a stacking damage benefit to block is such a great and creative way to add a new dynamic to the class. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. This could also play into talents beautifully down the road - One tree uses blocking to charge dmg, one tree for a shield or heal, and one a lesser but group buff or boss debuff that would suit an offtank and add value to an extra warrior if your group wasn’t in the “meta”.
Just awesome. Please strongly consider trying this Riley!
Mused over your idea of a shield/blocking generated attack throughout the day - I think it’s a really inspired! The concept ties up so many little problems into one nice solution, mostly in regards to leveling which is where the majority of concerns are coming from, but doesn’t seem to change anything about end-game warrior - which is what I think what you were saying, but I’ll add to it. An attack generated by blocking would:
-Incentive shield use, which is a big part of end-game content, but not necessarily leveling, so warriors would be more prepared for end-game upon dinging 20.
-With more blocking, less strain is put on the sword arm/shoulder.
-Adds interest to grinding.
-Potentially adds a much needed burst of DPS, which for levelers is probably sorely needed, especially for solo warriors.
I think you hit the nail on the head right here Riley, no matter what you do, the warrior class will be much more physically intensive than the other classes. This is the nature of the class in VR. That being said, I think there are a few things to consider when looking at the design of such a class.
As mentioned by others in this thread, repeated movement injury is a real thing, even for the guy who is normally a construction worker and in shape! Reminds me of the Wii Sports tennis injuries people used to get. And that was just a short game of tennis, think of how it affects the playability of a class in a MMORPG where you want to provide your players 100’s of hours.
I was thinking about how you could alleviate the repeated motion issue when determining warrior combos. Part of it is the current restriction in how combos are executed. “Match this repeated pattern to do X”. What if you were to switch to a more open system that provides more flexibility when determining warrior abilities? Picture this:
- A system that shows you your last 4 to 6 slashes (directly in front of you, or somewhere you could see it)
- To use ability X you must have the following
- 2 left swings
- 1 up swing
- 1 right swing
- Then allow the warrior to “activate” the skill by squeezing the controller on their sword hand
You could perform the “wound” combo this way, and have it do instant damage upon activation. You could even go further by having combos that put a charge on the sword and that charge is used on the next swing (something like a life leech).
I love the idea of having blocked attacks charge abilities (heal, damage combo… longer stun…etc). What I would work into here with shield abilities would be a way to utilize the trigger and the grips for the shield. Honestly, I’d have us pull the trigger and shield bash to stun a target. That way it stops randomly going off when I don’t intend to use it. You could have a stack counter for blocks that when it reaches 1-4 stacks you can squeeze the shield controller and put a massive damage charge onto your sword for the next swing.
I know you and the other devs have a vision for what you want in the game. Just remember that at the end of the day your players want something that is mechanically fun, and sells us the fantasy for the type of class we are playing. I love feeling like a warrior that can be a powerhouse bad ass that can save the day when tanking, or roll into a situation and put out some damage with useful abilities. I like playing a tank, but I don’t want to be just another meat shield. We like that “easy to pickup and difficult to master” feeling of progression.
Other items to possibly change up the melee play style:
- Two Handed Weapons (Think the Axe in Vanishing Realms for a mechanical feel)
- Dual Wielding (You have no idea how much I want to be able to equip a second sword and go to town with DPS ~ I think of the fun dual wielding you can do in Spell Fighter VR).
On a side note, it would be nice to be able to do something like a simple ability such as picking up a rock and throwing it at a mob for a useful ranged pull ability. Just a quality of life item that would make leveling less of a repeated “get close enough to agro, and now teleport away twice so you don’t pull the other mobs”. Perhaps have the “bag of rocks” on the warriors hip for easy access, even when holding the sword?
Thanks for your time, efforts, and consideration Riley and other devs! I’m enjoying the game so far (despite my sore shoulder). I’ll likely be spending tonight fishing in game and watching Netflix on OVRDrop.
I really like the trigger idea to activate a Retaliation effect on the next slash by using up all saved Blocking charges. Think of the possibilities! Cleave could be useful! Three mobs dealing a constant punishment on your shield? Retaliate with a powered up Cleave finisher and punish the entire herd! That dungeon boss that’s been hammering on your shield for long enough? Throw a max powered Wound finisher back in his face!
It solves so many issues,
- Gives warriors burst damage and increases overall DPS to be hopefully more in line with the other DPS classes
- Makes combat more involved as timing when and where to burn your saved counter charges would become key
- Adds a purpose to the Shield hand’s trigger
- Teaches proper shield play
- Makes abilities other than Wound more desirable
- Shield gets more bling on it! (and a more even 2x2 icon layout)
This is something I try to train out of people. Solo is not just spam wound, but if you are an untrained Warrior it is. Every 10 seconds a warrior ought to be shield bashing and using his charge. Then the warrior ought to be blocking attacks in between wounding. This is 100% not wound spam. Every 10 seconds you are bashing, charging, wounding, and blocking.
If anything, perhaps blocking up to 3 hits could add a 3x multiplier to our next charge. That way a warrior who is slow to wound but quick to block can make up for the lost damage with an improved charge every 10 seconds.
All this being said, the Warrior is incredibly fun to play right now with a little bit of training. The swing speed feels great and the hit detection feels solid. We have a diverse skill set and so much utility. Keep up the awesome work. Looking forward to what changes you make.
Yes, this is technically true. Howevever, shield bashes and charges don’t really change up the nature of the class. Even if you’re blocking in-between each wound, it’s still basically just wound that we throw.
I think this is the point of it. Throwing in stuns, charges and blocks doesn’t really alter the fact that Wound is the only combo that we’re throwing. There’s no kiting, for example. No backstab, or retreating to tend wounds, or crowd control when you solo. It’s just stand there and throw the Wound combo. The “expression of physicality” is highly uniform across all warriors.
With all that said, I fully agree that playing a warrior is far more than standing there and spamming Wound. It is a challenging class in ways that are more than physical. But, I do look forward to having something to throw other than Wound.