If class balancing happens Q4... fix useless/broken runemage mechanics

[Delceri]

I will preface this with: Any changes you think you might be making, you might want to check in for feedback with the whole community before going neck-deep in changes & wasted time by just producing something else people don’t like.

Useless:

• Light (it sticks now again, right? I haven’t been on to test. Increasing the radius might be nice tho).
• Ice Lance (only pairs well with frost shamans and mechanics don’t usually require it anymore. For example the old worm boss used to be good for ice lance because you could frost up the adds and hit all 3 enemies). When this spell was bugged it was the bees-knees, the KING of spells. This baby felt amazing back in the day.
• Frost 1 (Idk what you can do for this since it’s obsoleted by Frost 2 and Fireball 1. It might be in an okay spot and remain useless forever).
• Arcane Ray. Extremely low damage, low duration. Can’t cast other spells while its going off so your DPS is capped at the Arcane Ray dmg/time per hit vs other spells you could be casting a lot faster. Technically you can cast other spells during this time, but its a bug and the damage is so low that it’s not worth casting anyways.
• Mana Shield. If it lasted like 10, 15, 30 minutes it might be good. Or if it did something interesting instead. Maybe if it AoE’d or if there was Mana Shield 2, or a ritual for casting a group/large AoE version of it to buff the group. It’s just unnecessary and doesn’t last any amount of time.
• Pushback 2. Maybe this spell is underrated. However it just doesn’t feel like the juice is worth the squeeze. Maybe bump up that damage by a lot? I could say, make it slow as well, but idk. Idk what it would take to make this spell good and not op, but it sucks right now. It is fun to cast though! Pushback SFX are very satisfying visually and audibly.
• Static Shock. It’s range is sooooooooooooooooooooo short, doesn’t match the animation, and is sometimes finnicky with the hitbox. You can’t cast while activating it either. Needs a general rework.

Usually useless:

• Fireball 3 (obsoleted by Fireball 2, doesn’t AoE)
• Frost 3 (used to be the bomb diggity but ice lance sucks now and mechanics don’t require it anymore).
• Triplicity (pre-cast only now since it was nerfed to the ground). Used to be amazing. I’d rather get something cool or useful than a meh talent, despite looking cool & being fun to cast.
• Arcane Explosion(extremely rare and short-term of using True Affliction for some AoE purposes, or for pulling mobs AoE but not really necessary. Yes it does great AoE damage vs many targets and ur dps will be nuts but it’s usually better anyways to just murder the stronger targets. It’s an okay spell).
• True Affliction great for AoE but it reduces your spell damage, DOESN’T even tell you that it does that… horribly misleading for what used to be an amazing talent. It’s only used for niche purposes True Affinity is so much better now that True Affliction is garbage. There’s also less mechanics that would require True Affliction now but adding them would just make rune mages respec in between boss fights probably.
• Decurse…sort of. It’s good for fighting other mages, rangers, poison mobs, and totally wrecks musketeers. It used to be much more important with the old desert temple dungeon & the squid boss. You could also guarantee your own survival during the world worm boss, Sanyael or whatever. I still use this spell quite a lot, it’s pretty decent vs poison mobs, but it’s importance has plummeted greatly.

Stupid:

• Shared vs Selfish Streak. This talent is a stat-stick. Do more damage across the board. It’s powerful, no doubt. Doesn’t say make your frost&fire spells do more or your DoT damage + DoT duration (because just duration boosting like contamination is 100% useless as affliction is part of mage tileset rotations + in general DPS rotation + factor that mages share DoTs rather than have their own unique DoT debuff). Or do something cool like modify how some of your spells work. Frost spells now hit for 33% more vs fire spells now AoE, or fire spells now apply a small DoT… and so on. This lack of interesting talents is also partially due to how gear is all stat-sticks and nothing unique about the different wands and so-on. Because for example there is no say “Fire specialist” wand that might want you to take fire talents over frost talents, etc. Playstyles are basically identical not much preference involved.
• Runic Diversity. Another stat-stick. Mages are going to rotate their spells for their tileset. This is just free damage. You’d want fireball to be the third spell if possible, so there is that atleast. I just feel that something more interesting could go here.
• Make Lend a Hand an in-game option, replace it. Lend a hand is amazing. When it came out I thought it would be pointless ( no pun intended ). However, it is extremely good. So good in fact that no other talent can compare to it, and it’s useless to even have it be a talent. Move this to options as a preference, or make it be the default option for spellcasting.

True Affinity is also basically a stat stick. The bonus duration from frost to affliction is useless. The affliction damage buff is a stat stick. The fireball bonus damage is a stat stick. True affliction has no bearing at all on how the player decides to cast their spells, other than motivating them to more frequently cast fireball for the damage bonus rather than use other spells.

Stupid & Useless:

• Contamination. Literally does nothing other than look cool & some initial splash damage. Completely unnecessary to extend the duration of affliction. Maybe if it applied affliction but then it would be OP in PvP. How about res+affliction 2 = Affliction 3? Or consumes affliction dots in an area to deal their full damage to targets immediately, and so-on.

Broken (Doesn’t work)

• Runic Speed
• Strength stat

Fireball 3, Frost 3, Arcane Blast, Arcane Ray suggestions

The speed of which you can cast fireball 2, and the lack of a viable shortcut for fireball 3 renders it just a precast. Suggestion: AoE fireball damage, 2ndary targets take less damage. Frost 3 actually is used, for soloing when slowing mobs or sometimes in fights when massive slow is needed. However for most purposes its ignored. Suggestion: For extra utility give it AoE, 2ndary targets take less damage - applies slow. Would pair well with ice lance follow ups. Arcane Blast used to be good …

True Affliction is actually True Terrible now

This thread is not “make true affliction op again.” It is, wow this is a very useless talent for a level 20 talent that everyone used to enjoy. The current mage rotation is :fireball. With perhaps sometimes a greater affliction. Consider static shock, the other level 30 ritual which are eyyh, and + runic speed not seeming to work. Runic diversity would be good if there was any reason to cast frost with true affinity(u gain 3 ticks of affliction 2 so it’s just about worth fireballing some more…

• more random posts I’ve probably made but can’t find.

[NotScott]

The devs mentioned to only change numbers and not change any mechanics btw. Keep that in mind for all your suggestions.

@Delceri

Mana Shield.

Manashield is a defense buff and thus is only useful for increasing the chance of not dying. Because alot of deaths are f ups insta killing instead of barely not enough heals it is not useful often. If you are trying to help a bad tank or bad healer have a small increase of not dying then it is useful. e.g. Mistkeeper tank barely dying. Manashield = 8% less incoming damage, group maybe survives now. Because its the only non-healer class with this ability I would already say it is OP on grounds of having this ability at all.

@Delceri

Static Shock. Lowkey probably a pretty big DPS increase if a mage got serious.

Nonononono, you can’t cast a new spell while activating it, you will 100% lose dps using it.

[Xenocider]

Frost 3 isn’t useless
It’s good for sewer slime to get someone out of a tight spot

[NotScott]

@Delceri

Shared vs Selfish Streak

I would say shared vs selfish is interesting. Do you choose to be ‘selfish’ and increase your own dps more. Or shared streak will increase everyone’s dps and make the total dps output better (unless not enough other dps or weak other dps or all being mages)

@Delceri

Runic Diversity

Runic diversity is stupid for another reason. Affinity wants you to do frost before affliction. But Runic Diversity wants you to do frost after affliction. Or your boost will be on the affliction itself, which will not include the DoT’s. Only the single hit. Basically useless Those two talents contradict each others.

[Kala]

Some of these could be solved by having fights and mechanics that actually require them again. Ala, frost 3 being used for kiting fights (of which currently that is only relevant for sewer rat and airship and not necessary or a main strat on either), or the return of constant decurse fights. Hopefully, the devs can keep this in mind for the new raid…Would love to see True Affliction become relevant again or pushback 2 be relevant at all.

[Åsmund_T]

Frost 3 was never required for anything anyway(and still isn’t), hamstring and frost 2 was always enough(even just hamstring was enough most times), frost 3 was more of a QoL for the tank or to make up for the tank missing a hamstring.
And really, now that we have 4 DPS classes there shouldn’t be a fight that requires there to be a mage. At least not in dungeons and shard dungeons, maybe in a raid fight where there are more DPS spots.

[Delceri]

@Kala / @Åsmund_T, I agree with Potato that Frost 3 shouldn’t be required. Requiring slow for some fights should be fine though but don’t want to turn mages into just frost 3 factories every fight. I actually see nothing wrong with requiring a mage in some raid fights though, similarly I see nothing wrong with requiring other classes for some other fights. Even if “require” means making significantly more doable. In group context such as dungeons, requiring a mage would be more annoying. I’d say a mage, or any class, making certain dungeons fights somewhat easier is fine though. It’s okay to let classes shine (but not be required) in certain places, imo.

Frost 3 really shined in solo leveling paired with the bugged ice lance, and a number of boss fights. Although slow itself is nerfed now because of the timer count down/up mechanic. So it’s even less useful for boss fights if there is constant movement.

@Xenocider It is still good, but just much less useful than it used to be. That is why it’s under “usually useless.” You really don’t need it at all, it’s an okay utility to have that will help sometimes. With strength/runic speed broken, it is also even worse since it takes a long time to travel.

@Scott It should be that almost always shared is better. It comes down to the player/group (and group size) though. Also not sure if shared stacks, so maybe just 1 person needs it. Even in solo the extra 4% probably won’t be noticeable unless you are redlining mobs.

@Scott (again haha) I haven’t used static shock in so long I didn’t realize you can’t activate it and cast, I guess that makes sense given the trigger button. So… even more useless. I disagree about Mana Shield. I do use it, personally. It basically never makes a difference despite looking good on paper. I have seen a tank survive a single time because of a mana shield I tossed on him. Usually the healer has them covered.

If they are only changing numbers then that is pretty meh and I’m not really all that interested, personally, since rune mages do fairly well. Good for bards I guess.

[NotScott]

@Delceri

@Scott It should be that almost always shared is better. It comes down to the player/group (and group size) though. Also not sure if shared stacks, so maybe just 1 person needs it. Even in solo the extra 4% probably won’t be noticeable unless you are redlining mobs.

It should be as in “It should be the case but it is not currently” or in the sense that “If I am correct most situations make shared streak better” ???

[Delceri]

Non-scientifically I’d say shared streak is better most situations since the extra 4% from selfish-streak is probably overkill damage anyways. If you are encountering a situation solo where mobs get low on HP and require an additional spell to kill, and selfish-streak covers that, then it has a place over shared streak.

Similarly, your group has to have super low damage for you not to boost everyone by 4%.

Lastly, if shared streak doesn’t stack, then for raid purposes everyone but 1 mage should be using selfish, considerations about radius excluded (possibly 2 mages can use it). I actually don’t know the range of the buff.

Either way they are both stat-sticks.

[NotScott]

I think about half the situations you will be in shared streak is better and the other half selfish streak is better.

Shared streak does not stack, and does not override other mages selfish streak.

The factors in play:

• More players = more use out of it
• You need to win from 8% with 4% a person. So having 3 people making use of it means you will be better off with shared streak.
• Mage is highest dps. Giving 4% on other classes with lower dps means the boost relative to the mage itself is lower then 4% of that mage. So the shared streak with 3 people making use of it is actually almost always less then 12%. More like 10% with equal players. And maybe even below with lower skilled players. As min-max player recognizing this mechanic, you can assume you are almost always higher dps then every non mage.
• Taking a shardgroup of 3 dps as almost always the case, having 2 mages instantly means selfish streak is better in sharddungeons.
• Being in a raid also means having a second mage means one of the two mages needs to go selfish streak.

Now lastly removing the actual logical points and talk about human behavior. When I asked in the past why almost everyone has selfish streak, which is the case, they just want their own dps higher. So although the math says don’t do it in situation X, but do shared streak in situation Y, peoople rather stay on the one they feel best with. Which will be Selfish streak. Which is also automatically better for the person itself maybe even being afraid of being judged for too low dps if we not talking about the min-man players anymore.

A bit of personal experience, I had shared streak for a really long time, but almost always felt I was not increasing the group dps because of the difference in dps and all those other situations I mentioned above. So personal experience , most lean to selfish streak, and in a raid shared streak would more often be better granted there is not another mage using it too.

Pppppff way too long story for something so ‘simple’

[Espiticus]

Cough … it’s possible to cast and static … cough
Its viable cough.

Ya got to play castanets with your triggers but you dont have to hold down the trigger/grip for shock to cast if you pulse left hand trigger in time with right hand trigger at about the third pulse it will cast shocking grasp as you are casting 3rd spell. It is essentially the same concept as telecasting but pulsing your off hand.

There is a speed cap you can do it at but it is possible at z timing.

Not a feature but a work around.
As a note shocking grasp has a range of 8 while ice lance has a range of 21 for people to appreciate how close range it is.

I would appreciate shocking grasp to be rebinded to double tap of trigger instead of hold for x seconds. Also let me shoot the acorns out of the air with it. Give me a longer range … more dmg

Mainly fix all line attacks

Static
Ice lance
Arcane Ray
Ultimate

Are all broken and seemingly hit or miss based on rng.

My ultimate range seems to have been hella nerfed and never hits and when it does performs meh damage.

Grumblegrumblegrumblebacktomycavegrumble

[NotScott]

I am noticing for the speed I am casting that it is impossible to have the trigger on 1 hand unpressed and the other with static charge pressed and not overlap when switching back. Probably because of un-press delay from the static charge hand. Very short pauses between casts makes it possible but then you just lose dps. Also one failure in timing and you can not cast for a bit or trigger your super with short no cast time, which both makes you lose alot of dps.

[Espiticus]

yea , I improved my timing by clacking off hand trigger as you press main-hand spell submit.
with that you dont have to pause at all (cast at z (G) timing)

pure nonsense but fun. every 3-5 spells you get free fireball DMG from static.

also , guess ill share this too …
you can hit with every line spell as long as you pretend they are melee spells.
Stab your opponent with your wand before casting the line spell for the only garanteed Hit.

I will eventually make a Melee Mage Build , but havent gotten around to it