I’m just going to say everything in battlegrounds is actually not to bad for balance like nothing in the game can 1 shot you only thing I see people complain about is dying to fast or what not so probably the only thing I fell like is needed is possible a buff to max HP in battlegrounds
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buff musky pvp tho
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Paladin is a melee class, just kill it before it’s in range.
nah I know you didjt just say this. it is very difficult to kill an experienced paladin before they reach you
Do you know what a pally port is
Don’t think dying fast is a problem. You respawn instantly with no delay timer are right back in combat because it’s a small map. If you have a problem with the hp I suggest finding one other person both turning on pvp then battling as pallys outside of highstep. 10 min later when you both are still alive with no honour points from a victory maybe you will appreciate the balancing a bit more.
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Predictable.
I’m not gonna keep arguing with someone who never pvps
You had Katsui and now me, 2 very active players in the PVP community comment on this post about it being how stupid this is. This post is just another player who’s incapable of succeeding in battlegrounds so he takes it out in the forms or a discord server, at the end of the day your facing what is called a “skill issue”
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as poorly worded as that was, tricycle has a point. while i’d like to see fights in pvp be a bit longer, battlegrounds as is takes a lot of skill. i can play against mages who spell stack and paladins who run but still get 16+ kills and upwards of 7 captures a game so i think we need to leave pvp be.
and now it’s me, tri. katsui, and brett all saying pvp is just a skill game.
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Listen man this was like 8 in the morning for me and I just woke up.
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Ill just be happy bouncing my poison on my turret to get you in combat around a corner just so someone else can deal with you guys 
I’d agree with this, but it is a team game mode. That’s why I love playing bard. Good damage, Good heals. I’m always contributing.
That, and with the geometry, its easy to use it to your advantage to make them miss. Most of the flags have places where you can make that happen.
TL;DR: Play with your team. Don’t get hit.
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Wait till you see ILoveAgro playing stuck combat pallying when you turn a corner
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I play bard too! its fun because I can heal the dps and so can agro with pally book
I’ve got to agree with this, pvp battlegrounds is fully a skill game…while the mages you see fireball stacking may look overpowered, they have spent hours practicing it. Its the same for every other class, fully skill based, and if you find fighting a fireball spamming mage too hard, try tagging along with a friend in battlegrounds so you can 2v1 the mage.
I agree with a lot of the points others have said.
- I think mage is a little too strong
- I think it might be interesting to restrict each team to not having duplicate classes
- I dont think we should though because making it any harder to queue and get into a match would be bad.
I made a post about my initial impressions of the new map and balance changes here
And I think most of it holds up. Read that if you want to see a significantly more in depth breakdown of the meta and overall impact that the changes had on bgs.
I do want to share my 2 cents and go over some of the relavant points brought up in this thread here though:
My Thoughts On Mage
The nerf to mage and scoundrel in the bg update did a weird thing to the meta. It brought down 2 the oppressive big 3 classes (paladins still op but not in a directly combat way so we’re not gonna talk about it here) but scoundrel got hit way harder so while mage got weaker, it now sits alone at the top. Instead of:
S tier: Mage, Scoundrel
B tier: Ranger
Now its:
A tier: Mage
B tier: Scoundrel, Ranger
On one hand, this is bad because there is now just an objectively best dps class. On the other hand, this is good because the meta is less oppressive and the skill diferential required for a non-meta class to keep up is lower.
Overall I think it was a step in the right direction though.
My main issue with mage is that it doesn’t change very much between using it in dungeons vs using it in pvp. The class is hard and requires hundreds of hours of practice but a competent pve mage can queue battlegrounds and immediately be a pretty significant threat without a lot of pvp experience. Every other class vastly changes how they play and approach combat between pvp and pve except for mage.
I think nerfing fireball was the right idea, they just didn’t do it enough. I would like to see fireball spam not be a viable pvp playstyle and for pvp mages to have to practice and cast different spells and rotations. At minimum I think frost spam should be significantly better than fire spam. If we want to get a little more creative, maybe they could tweak the pvp numbers of some other spells like Affliction 1, Frost 1, Fireball 3, Knockback 2, to really spice up the way mages approach pvp combat.
I understand the argument that practice and skill should be rewarded, I just think being good at pvp should require specifically practicing pvp and skills uniquely connected to pvp.
Even beyond that I believe there are important skills beyond purely technical skills like casting speed and I think having a class be too skill expressive can actually dumb it down. What I mean by this is that I don’t feel like mages are really required to assess the state of the game or have good macro and teamwork skills like communication skills, positioning, situational awareness, threat assessment, etc. I think this is due to the fact that because a class with high technical skill expression can win in disadvantageous situations, it doesn’t punish players for putting themselves at a disadvantage or taking bad fights and its more effective to get better at fighting than to learn how to take better fights.
To be fair I think this is a partially a problem with pvp in general but I feel its especially bad with mage.
The point of that whole paragraph is that while mages should be rewarded for playing a hard class and being good at the game how much they should be rewarded is a harder question. I personally think its too easy right now for mages to just brute force their way to success by leveraging their classes higher skill expression to carry their team without effectively utilizing teamwork, strategy, or trying to control the terms under which the fight takes place like environment, distance, and the element of surprise.
My Thoughts On Musket
As one of the best pvp muskets in the game, I’m gonna be honest the new map is pretty devastating. The mage and scoundrel nerfs were great but the new map unintentionally neutered the class.
The class isn’t unplayable, it just feels like you win when your team is better and you lose when they aren’t and you’re mostly powerless to impact the outcome of the game. While i was playing on the new map I felt the constant urge to just switch to support paladin and do everything i was doing but just way better. On the old map the class definitely wasn’t good but there were situations where it could do things no other class could do. I was gave my team the sustain required to storm mid head on and once we got there i made it a nightmare to take back and ground the game to a halt. I was fighting an uphill battle but I had the capacity to actually pull my weight and maybe carry my team a little if I was gaming really hard.
A really easy addition that I’ve brought up before here
to just make the class generally cooler and more skill expressive is to make speedy talent work when you kill your own turret
why the class kinda sucks now
- They fixed a bunch of issues with the old map
The way I played the class was super degenerative and basically only wasn’t toxic because my class was weak and I was punching up. If I was alone I would constantly poke and harass the enemy team but would basically always run from fights when they actually tried to approach me. I would hide behind cover and wall hop and just bounce my healing and poison off my turret. I would constantly tag people for combat. If my team lost mid I would just run all over the place trying to be hard to kill to contest the point. My whole win condition was to stall out the game and lock down mid effectively trapping the enemy team in their spawn.
Stalling out the game is probably not healthy to be able to do and it makes the enemy team miserable and frustrated so when the devs made bgs have multiple viable points and made it pretty much impossible to stall out games I couldn’t really do that anymore. Cover isn’t really possible to teleport through anymore either.
- Healing doesn’t matter
The value of healing is directly proportional to how much dying sucks and in the new map dying doesn’t really matter. you respawn and get back into the fight instantly so saving someone’s life is fairly meaningless.
Additionally you can’t heal through oneshots and a lot of the time your shield orb isn’t enough to prevent it so sometimes you just watch people die and there’s nothing you can do about it
Games in the new map aren’t really won through taking and defending points as much as just taking points faster than the enemy team and not sticking around to defend them and playing a class that groups with allies to try to win fights just means that the enemy team is just going to take whatever point you aren’t at.
Why I Think Bgs are Struggling and Everything Else I Want To Talk About
I think bgs is struggling for 2 reasons
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Zenith. The bg update happened around the time that zenith as about to launch. A lot of people I knew started playing orbus before the launch because they were excited for zenith and ended up playing orbus while they waited to have people to talk to about it and to suppress their hype. After the launch zenith kinda stole a lot of players like me who had mostly finished the game a while ago but didn’t really have anywhere else to go previously.
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The new map. I think the new map is a much better game mode on paper but ultimately targets the wrong audience. Its crazy and chaotic. Its fast paced and short. You never really feel trapped and by the time you figure out which team is stronger the game is already over. The whole thing feels much more accessible and friendly for newer players and it feels like the kind of thing you would want to do every once in a while but not really focus exclusively on. Unfortunately none of this is representitive of what pvp players want. The people who kept bgs alive before were sweaty try-hards(myself included
) who wanted to hone their skills and make a name for themselves. They queued bgs like 20 times a day and a lot of them focused most of their playtime around it. Those people didn’t want goofy and chaotic and the game would need to be a lot more active a lot more would have had to have changed for a casual audience to have developed. So bgs is in an awkward middle ground with a lot less dedicated grinders to force it to pop and without enough activity to make casuals feel like it’ll happen if they queue.
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Your own spawn protection should not prevent you from hurting the enemy team. If someone literally walks into the enemy spawn area it seems logical to me that they should die.
I would like to see fights in pvp be longer. Support will always feel kinda useless as long as people are getting oneshot and there’s no time investment in taking a fight.
Also mage isn’t actually the strongest pvp class. Paladin has always been and continues to be extraordinarily oppressive. If you just totally avoid combat and harass points you can fairly easily 1v4 without really having any actual competency in the class at all and there’s nothing the other team can really do about it except also run a paladin doing it too. You just don’t see people doing it a lot because its pretty boring and miserable for everyone involved including the one doing it. If you want to actually interact with people the class is still really strong though.
The whole issue with the class is the teleport. Its a class with no bad matchups because if its ever in a losing fight it just leaves. Even when they get tagged for combat they still move at out of combat mount speed so starting a fight with them is just immediately detrimental because they just instantly teleport away and continue to get to move fast while you are now stuck at snail speed until you die.
The teleport absolutely needs some kind of interaction to make it possible to actually force paladins to take fights and to make it possible to contest goblin token. I think certain abilities should stun them and return the hammer to their hand or cc their teleport ability.
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I also made a post forever ago before the new map about what I wanted it to be and how I wanted them to balance the classes
Keep in mind some of this isn’t relevant anymore as this was before I knew what the new map was but I still think it highlights a lot of my thought process behind what I think good pvp balance looks like.
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PvP and PvP balance are beyond an afterthought by this team. Seek a new game if that’s what you after 
they won’t even bring the wilds back
It would be cool to turn the Foresaken Isle into 'the wilds". Aside from the PVP aspect, it seems to be the closest thing we currently have to the other original ideas behind the wilds.