Questions and Suggestions about the Chaos Dungeons

Suggestions
#1

If you haven’t read this years roadmap yet, read it here before anything else. Its important context for what I’m going to be talking about here.

So, the new Chaos dungeons are coming out this year! I do have a few questions and suggestions about the rewards and systems we’ll be seeing in Taella Bruha, however.

Shards (the dungeon type)

I don't think that I'm alone in assuming that alongside the two new dungeons, we will also be seeing an increase in the maximum shard level from T15 to T18 with +6 (+7 legendary) gear drops. Can we get a conformation on whether or not this will be happening? I think it would be a good idea since the pattern so far has been Release a raid > Increase shard cap to raid level > Release a raid. Also, endgame is getting a little stale for some players, so this can be another thing to grind out

Rewards

I would like to see the new dungeons only be available in the shard pool at T10+ and have the unsharded dungeons be synced to around the T7-T9 range while dropping +3 gear. Current raids drop +2, +4, +5, and +6 gear, and offer a way to gear without having to level shards, and these Chaos dungeons could fill a gap in between Guild City Normal and Citadel Normal. In my mind, gear progression could move like

+1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6
T1-3 T4-6/GC T7-9/Chaos Dungeons T10-12/Citadel T13-15/GCH T16-18/Citadel H

My reasoning for wanting the new dungeons to be so difficult is so that there is an actual reason to run them apart from transmog. The mines and temple dungeons struggled with this a lot, and I don't even think I have ever done a unsharded temple in all my hours of playing since

  1. Its not in dungeon queue since its lvl 30
  2. Theres no rewards apart from a single transmog that you can just get from mines

Additional rewards could be a mount with a % chance to drop from the unsharded version of the dungeons to keep people grinding for it. This was actually a thing in mines and temple, but it could drop from the sharded version too, so you could get it passively by grinding shards without having to focus farm it. Also, a daily potion drop like there is for each group of shards would be a nice incentive.

If its not going to be high level, then I want to at least see it in dungeon queue so that people actually run it. My reasoning for wanting it to not be low level however is so that people won't complain about the rewards I'm about to suggest being too easy to get.

Preborn Gear as Rewards

I want to see the old game Ancient and Techno sets obtainable, and the Spiro weapons. I don't know a single player who was upset about the Spiro armor set being redistributed. I've already made a post about redistributing the old sets to reborn players which got a fair amount of likes, and nobody seemed opposed to the idea. My idea for the gear drops is as follows:

  • Techno - Drops from 1st unsharded Chaos Dungeon
  • Ancient Normal - Drops from 2nd unsharded Chaos Dungeon
  • Ancient Expert - Drops from T18 Shards
  • Spiro Weapon - Legendary drop from T16-18

I think that if drops are done like this, old game players will not have any problem with them being too easy to get compared to how difficult they were to get back in preborn. Additionally, I don't think that many reborn players will be very annoyed about pinnacle rewards being rereleases of old game gear since most reborn players really want these old sets. Additionally, the devs won't have to design new armor sets for shards or the new dungeons, a win-win in my eyes.

TL;DR:

Will we see T18?, the dungeons should start at +3 range so there's a reason to run it, and can we get the old game sets reobtainable?

also, if i had any awful takes here please call me out on it since it was kind of late when i wrote most of this i just want the dungeons to be good and people to actually do them and get the old armor ok ty ily :heart: :D
6 Likes
#2

Can we also have a mechanic where there’s a 1/100 chance that when you leave the dungeon every thing turns purple so it’s lore accurate

3 Likes
#3

Old game player here.

I’d love to see the return of old game gear. Ancient robes especially!

#4

I would like to see an increase to shard lvl too. Endgame feels stale to me now.

1 concern with the dungeon being exclusive to tier 3+ is it needs to have all dungeons as a possiblity. When the mines/temple came out it was going to be the only dungeons in 11+ that would of sucked/been so repetitive.

Having 8 total dungeons that shards could be will be great variety.

3 Likes
#5

I agree but I think +7 weapons to only be a last boss HM citadel thing
And I think if the cap of shard levels would be raised to 18 then 18 should give +6 and 17-15 sould give +5
The arcane set from them would be cool

#6

But +5 weapons are given in 13-15s right now, would need to make 16-18 give +6.

I understand your point with the exclusiveness of +7, but I’m undecided on if it should be boss 4 HM only or with a small chance in a 18 shard like +6 is currently with 15 shards.

1 Like
#7

Just let the highest shards give +7 armour. That is going to come eventually, right? We have +7 weapons, albeit rare, so the armourers are eventually going to figure out how to make gear to match.

#8

Personally, I think this is a great idea.

#9

To expand on this, should be +6 non legendaries given out in 16-18 shards. You have a chance to get a +6 legendary its just not as common as the regular +6.

It only makes sense to continue the same scaling progression and drop rates that are currently in use in lower shards.

#10

hopefully +7 armor will be coming in the next raid, whenever that may be.

#11

legendary armor with 3 affixes instead of just 2 when???

#12

Will we need a new type of shard for this? Minor -> major -> glimmering -> effervescent -> ???

#13

Please no, I don’t have enough effervecents to reroll armor as well as weapons

#14

Perfect shard? Been bugging me on the Auction House ever since i first saw it XD

1 Like
#15

Oh I misread this, I thought you were saying legendary weapons with 3 affixes instead of 2.

3 affix armor…VERY interesting!

#16

Eh, I’m not so sure we should give +6 armor in shards yet. Citadel Hard mode is incomparably harder then shards, and guarenteed rolls / no time lock for shards will make doing Citadel Hard for gear almost irrelevant. Even a 15 shard can be done relatively easily, and I don’t think giving the enemies a health and damage increase is going to make the difficulty anywhere close to Citadel Hard Boss 3/4 levels of coordination and skill.

I guess this all really boils down to the fact that shards are too easy. Doing a shard 16 per day for a week or whatever shouldn’t give an equivalent set of gear as doing extremely difficult raids for weeks in order to get enough tokens to get a set of +6 for a single class.

2 Likes
#17

I came to the game late, after all the current end game content had been released. Honest question, was this a similar argument or completely irrelevant argument when previous raids came out?

GC NM +2/HM +5 what gear was available from shards at the time of its release?
Cit NM +4 what gear was available from shards at the time of its release?

In my mind, making +6 armor and +6 non legendary weapons available in shards makes Cit HM more viable for more players, especially with Boss 2 being a complete DPS check right now. This in turn creates a natural progression for the next tier of even more difficult raids to be released.

1 Like
#18

I think that’s a good point, but it also doesn’t allow everyone to really experience the game at its intended difficulty. When I started playing reborn, GC NM kicked all our asses because everyone was only at +1/2/3 gear in the really early days. The mechanics needed to be executed extremely well, and every boss was a real challenge. I left for a long time, came back, and everyone was in full +5 gear pretty much. I got up to that gear level, retried the raid and every boss just became “stand still shoot boss until dead” because the gear and weaponry was so powerful compared to the bosses. Mechanics became increasingly irrelevant as players could just ignore and face tank missed mechanics.

Very few players have actually beaten Citadel Boss 4 HM at its intended difficulty. I think that we should at least wait until a larger portion of the playerbase has completed the raid at the gear level it was based around before we release armor that makes it increasingly trivial.

1 Like
#19

If the higher level shards are at an increased difficulty, it shouldn’t be a problem. As games level up, new and harder content comes out, with new and better gear. We’re not going to stay where we are forever without stagnating, so at some point fairly soon it will be time to bump things up. Logically that means shards above citadel level, followed by a new raid of higher difficulty. Obviously not all right away, but it’s the natural progression.

1 Like
#20

I mean, we will definitely have to eventually. A lot of it will depend on how Q1 plays out and how many groups are constantly beating the entirety of Citadel HM. At the end of the day, it’s more of an issue with the difficulty of shards then anything else.

This probably needs it’s own post, but I’ll put some of my current opinion about raids and shards here.

Most of the affixes for the highest level of shards (reincarnation, shared pain, ect) don’t apply on bossfights and generally are more of an annoyance that takes additional time then a true challenge. If you can beat a single add, you will eventually beat that add no matter how many times it ressurects. It doesn’t actually make the encounter more difficult, it just makes it take longer.

Dungeons are scaled around a new player at the game being able to learn mechanics and beat it first try. At their core, they need to be easy mechanic-wise to be accessible. Raids don’t have this limitation, and have difficult mechanics the entire party must learn. The bosses aren’t difficult because they hit extremely hard, they are difficult because of the coordination and skill necessary to beat the mechanics.

The only real ways I could see this fixed would be to make shard 16-18 only in the two chaos dungeons that are being released. Then, make the bosses in this mechanically difficult (raid-lite) bosses which would also hit extremely hard at these high shard levels. Either that or redesign boss mechanics past a certain shard level, but that will take enough work that it probably isn’t worthwhile for the devs.

I’ll probably make a better thought out post about this.

1 Like