This was an interesting read. I mainly do PvE, b/c I am not that good at PvP. I think the reward makes sense seeing how much risk there is. They would need to make it 4x more resources for me to turn PvP on:) I think the devs need to stick to their vision for whatever they want to do and see how it plays out. I really don’t think it will make that big of a difference either way. It can always be adjusted later if need be.
Personally I would prefer highly encouraged pvp content with double harvestables rather than the current system in which pvp is forced through the fact that some resources are only available in the wilds.
Have all resources available in both pve and pvp zones, but the dangerous nature of a pvp zone should have an increased reward.
Just my cents
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A few notes on travel with PVP on:
- There needs to be a way to respawn in Highsteppe, especially for PVP players.
- Portals from safe zones should be possible.
- Portals near any portal pillars could also be a nice affordance.
Quick note on world PVP:
- There needs to be a way for players to disengage from PVP combat. Putting away weapons from a certain distance from all enemy players, for example.
- Very fun and I’m very excited for Reborn!
it is defiantly not forcing you to turn on pvp, if you turn on pvp to gather these items you have to walk all the way back to highstep to put these items in your chest. you can not teleport with pvp on.
The world map is quite small, so I don’t think that is an issue right now at max level. It only takes a few minutes to get from one side of the map to the other 
. If PvPers can teleport around as they want, then it just makes farming double materials even easier and the sentiment of ‘PvP 2 win’ is enforced… Hell, people would even stop PvPing because there would be less of a need to. That also does not feel like the right balance to me.
I totally agree with you that the current system in the current game is definitely worse.
My opinion is just that, an opinion and everyone has one… A bit like… something else that everyone else has 
.
The tough question still hasn’t been answered though. How do you balance risk vs reward for PvPers and PvErs? I know it will be a case of ‘just testing it’… But there are good tests and bad ones.
Here are some examples which make this complex and skew that balance:
Law of Supply and Demand: its 5am PST and everyone has gone to sleep… Some guy from the far eastern hemosphere (Thailand or Australia or something) wakes up and farms out all the nodes with PvP for an hour or two then logs off.
Exploitation: Said farmer goes to zone, has second account and character acting as a mule. Kills self and drops bags to mule thereby skipping PvP mechanics and ultimately the fight to keep those assets. Hides somewhere no one goes until log out timer is finished.
Monopolization: A team of the strongest PvPers camp at the most lucrative zones and/or just outside highsteppe waiting for people to bring back phat loots. There are 5/10 of them and so solo PvPers just get wrecked. Eventually that team monopolize the market. note: we have already seen this problem happen in the previous game which just ended in an unneedingly escalated war 
(it was fun, but it really just was the two biggest teams duking it out so only appealed to the 1%).
I am sure there are plenty of examples for the 3 categories that are unaddressed…
3 Likes
@J, good points.
As for the great pain of walking: I walk everywhere to save reagents and back because on the way back I normally farm more mats, so what. While I do think the reborn map is fairly huge, I don’t think it’s a real restriction… and the risk-blabla tires me, as stated I do not think a great risk exists, not for certain timezones and high levels. I just walked thru couple areas this (EU) morning seeing nobody and this is the test-server with higher player count than to be expected than in the released game.
I constantly wonder why farming, which is a pve activity normally, should be tied or boosted to pvp at all, it makes no sense. Pvp dominates the market already up to the point that prizes ridiculously drop and vendors quit cuz their earnings don’t match their playtime. I got no incentive to compete under these conditions, perhaps farm stuff I need for my own potions, but vendoring with half speed, no thanks and why on earth should these activities become a pvp privilege, not for certain mats like right now, but for all.
On a sidenote, the pvp community is - no offense, just my experience comparing pvp and pve servers in other games (I played on both) - normally of younger age, in average, teens, students with lots time on their hands while amongst pve players you find more in their 30s, 40s and up with job and family… before all cry out, sure that’s a general note and there’s exceptions on both sides, but catering this group even more, expecting double time spent from pve-ers seems odd. Time is the one thing I really lack - also because pve activities like practicing dungeons over and over are still more time-consuming than the pvp content - so I don’t see why this should be cut, additionally.
I wished you guys get your own pvp server at one point, this seems to be the only clean solution. There everyone got same chances, same loot, a fair competition on the market, it could technically be tailored exactly for pvp like logout timers, teleport restrictions or allowances and what not and it’s much easier to not balance it against pve all the time.
It would be consequent because the separation is already visible, I can not heal “red” players which is odd enough, just like their bags lying around and the plopping sounds etc. also from a pvp perspective it is likely funny if you see someone comin from afar and prepare to defend or attack and then it’s just another pve-guy 
…
Are healing pots changing for pvp?
just a thought, but theoretically what if there was a unique tradable reward for the weekly leader of pvp, that can only be obtained by placing first for the week in honor points. I think that would help keep pvp rewarding and fun.
How about gear with PvP “mini-affixes” which have a chance to drop when you kill a player such as:
- x% Increased crit chance vs players
- x% Increased crit damage vs players
- x% Reduced incoming crit damage vs players
- x% increased healing (only works with PvP on)
- x% increased DoT damage vs players
- x% Damage vs players
- x% Reduced incoming damage from players
- x% Honor point gain
and then they are scaled higher than the % you would get on PvE gear, this way, PvP players can PvP to get PvP gear and are not forced to PvE if they don’t want to and the increased resources can be a 1 in 10 chance to gain extra resources like the 10% exp bonus, it’s a nice bonus for the “risk” but isn’t something that is going to feel like you’re being forced in to doing to stay on top as a PvE player
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A lot of time it will not be faster to have PvP turned on to get all these extra resources. If you have ever PvP’ed, you’ll notice at times when you thought it would take 5 minutes gathering some materials, someone ganks you, that person calls back up and ganks the other person, then that person calls back up escalating it to an all out war for the next 2 hours all over a few mats. This happens all the time in MMO’s.
PvP’ers also use a ton of potions in the world where PvE’ers only use potions in dungeons. Having the increase drop rate helps with those.
no one would turn PvP on just to gather resources if it was a 10% bonus to gathering resources. It just wouldn’t be worth the risk. You could gather a lot faster with it off as you would never be bothered and would never have to use potions. Even with the 2x resources, I’d still argue you wouldn’t be able to gather resources as fast as you can with PvP off.
Unless they use invis pots and speed pots and run home.
invis pots take an enormous amount of mats and time, in most cases it is not worth using or you get a negative return, most PvP’er have speed pots, so they both use them. Paladins with their hammer throw can catch up to people using speed pots as well, causing them to chug more than a few.
Who!? What people?! I’ll fix that personally. I don’t need to PVP. I want to PVP.
That’s not strictly possible, because non-PVP gathering is still likely to outpace this strategy. It relies on an active, PVP-enabled gathering force, who are also stupid enough to consistently get ganked.
“Problem”? You even admit it was fun.
It’d be pretty baller if the bonus were dynamic, based on the number of players on. 200 players? 100% bonus! 20 players? I guess have a dinky 10%, you’re still taking some risk.
Personally, I strongly prefer games where PVE and PVP are linked. It creates a more holistic, engaging experience because it’s dynamic (around the needs of other players and the markets) and creates stakes to every fight.
Apart from undercutting the holistic-ness, this would also split an already small userbase. It’s plainly not feasible.
2 Likes
I accidentally left the pvp on… i ran around for at least 30 minutes and ran past tons of ppl… noone ever even attacked me. maybe i’m lucky… but maybe ppl are just turning it on to get extra mats/exp and dont actually do any pvp.
From my experience, world pvp is always garbage and the only real pvp is in battlegrounds or arenas.
With the servers going to be cleared, it really doesn’t matter what you lose. I think most people are testing right now trying to find bugs.
i agree with this point.
yes that happens. it will always happen and if it doesn’t at all, monopolization is a 100% success. I think you actually enforced my point here :).
Its a problem because it is only 2 teams who make the 1% fighting and no one else… Yes it was fun and i would do it again… but just having the 1% doing it together is kinda a shame.
If it ruins the experience for a PvEr then either a server split is necessary or reward balancing. There are games where it works though yeah.
not feasible i agree.
Part of the appeal of PVP incentives is that this will happen. It’s then incumbent on more bloodthirsty PVP players to actualize the risk they’ve accepted.
These cater to overlapping but different audiences. Personally, I love world PVP of any sort, while battlegrounds are just “ok”. You seem to disagree. Perhaps you don’t like playing the part of the bandit or the savvy salvager, but want a little PVP. That’s fine, but just because it doesn’t cater to you, doesn’t mean it’s actually garbage.
You’re currently able to see player name plate through walls even if you’re not in combat with them, Makes Ganking a bit harder
It is more an issue because while you CAN have very large, fun battles… what you tend to get in world pvp is 10v1 ganking… which isnt fun for the solo person. I’ve been on a lot of pvp servers in the past… there is one thing in common with all of them: assholes killing lowbies for fun.
It is one thing to have this kind of situation with split servers… because ppl ‘know’ that they are going to run into this issue… but i’ve also seen situations where it is like that for all servers… and it isnt fun for new players.
With battlegrounds and arenas however, at the very least you get balanced numbers of players… even if the players themselves aren’t balanced. This makes them inherently more fun.