Level Scaling Request for Removal

Congratulations to the Orbus Team for going for 2 years in VR. I am proud to be a part of this community and I continue, if not as often as when the game first launched, to enjoy the work the Dev Team has done in bringing the first VR MMO into reality.

I know it has been discussed in previous threads, but I have a Christmas request that the Dev Team consider removing the level scaling from the over world. I know at one point it was said that the team would be collecting data on how level scaling is working and how people feel about it. I am not sure of the current opinion from the Dev Team about level scaling in the over world, but I have and currently still SEVERELY DISLIKE the level scaling system. I do believe it works well in dungeons but not through out the world as a whole.

@Robert Is there a possibility that the Level Scaling be removed? If there is anyone reading the forms that has a different opinion in which you would like to have level scaling of the over world stay, I personally would like to hear your opinion on the matter.

Thanks and keep up the good work.

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We had a questionaire about what one thing we would change if we could… remove overworld level-scaling was one of the points I heard others were mostly answering there.

Only to repeat a few downsides of levelscaling:

  • The feeling of progress is taken away, all fights feel same, the level or better weapons do not make a huge difference
  • The feeling of weakness can be disappointing, like dying in a starter area midst-level or the need to run in circles to not get into fights while farming, in any area
  • There’s no ‘revenge’ games like, returning to hard mobs which nuked you before, after leveling up, and being able to kill them easier
  • There’s no quickly getting rid of mobs you run into by fighting, if you only wanna farm, leashing is the faster way
  • Farming lower mobs with certain classes (Musky!) was well possible in the OG, now this takes way too long to consider
  • Level-scaling was introduced so players of a wider level range can play together; but the opposite happens. I can not even help like in the OG; if I see newbs pulling too many mobs, I don’t run to the rescue, but walk past, thinking “good luck”!
  • The feeling of power and “clearing” lower areas while farming (at least for a very short time, I didn’t mind respawning them quickly some way behind me), one- or twoshotting mobs, is no longer there

I frequently visit & farm the few non-scaled spots, just to relax and get that feeling back, but I still don’t get why it needed to be confined to so few areas…

Also the mix of scaled and unscaled right next to each other is confusing for new players, I guess. One time you need an eternity to dance around and kill a “green” mob, the next green mob next to it is down in 2 shots…

I mean, in the OG there were Elites (= long fights), normal mobs (= short fights), zones for this and that level, perhaps some high-level spots in otherwise lower areas, but that should be it.
(For events and dungeons level-scaling is fine imo).

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I thought the devs said clearly a while ago that they see level scaling did not have the effect they thought it would have. I second this post.

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Lol. No one even asked for level scaling in the first place. I actually remember when they first announced it everyone said it was a bad idea, and after playing the betas we still said it was bad, and they put it in the game anyway. So yes, please remove this thing that everyone hates and that no one asked for from the game :slight_smile: <3

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I was under the impression that it was supposed be the regular dungeons that would get scaled so that the elder players can take younger ones in there and ‘train’ them to be shard/raid ready? (especially since people at that time were complaining that the newbies weren’t good/trained enough by the time they were playing with us)
Then it suddenly went everywhere in the world.
It also sucks that because of level scaling, there is no point in helping new players level up since there are not much gain in XP anymore.

I highly second this post!

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I would love to see the removal of level scaling in the overworld, I dearly miss running around killing everything I see while harvesting the mats I need, rather than avoiding everything I see to do whatever missions I need to do

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I know I’m in the minority here, but I rather enjoy the level scaling. It means I can still play in all areas of the game without one shotting everything. The redtails were fun to farm in Preborn, sure, but when Arcane Explosion could wipe seven or eight at a time, there was no challenge.

Plus, I can help out lower level players without going god-mode and being invulnerable/killing everything immediately. When I see a newer player pulling too many mobs, I can hop in and help them, but I still have to be good at what I do. I like having to actually play my class in order to kill things. The fact that at level 30, if I pull too many enemies just outside of Highsteppe means possible death is awesome to me. I still feel like I’ve progressed because I can take multiple enemies at once due to my level, skill, and gear. But being able to walk through hordes of enemies without worrying always seemed odd to me.

All in all, I’m in favor of keeping it.

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There should be mobs that you are able to run straight through when you are at max level. In Reborn it is difficult to feel strong when you can’t even one-shot the level 1 mobs outside of highsteppe. With the removal of level scaling there would still be mobs that require skill to kill, but no all of them would.

I hate this with every fiber of my being. I should be god-like compared to the level 1 mobs outside of the starter village. I want to feel super-strong, and being able to blast things away was one of the most satisfying things that I would do in OG.

To me, it’s not about showing whether you have progressed or not. There are already other things in the game that show that. This is about how strong you are as a person in this world. When everything is scaled to be closer to your level than it actually is it prevents people from feeling like they are getting stronger. In OG it was a big deal when you started 1 shotting stuff. It felt like you had come so far since the beginning, and when you enter a new zone and get wrecked, it made you want to get even stronger in the future so you could hope to one day one-shot them too.

All in all, I’m in favor of casting it beyond the ninth circle of hell where it belongs.

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Sure, the sense of power from being able one-shot mobs of enemies is a rush. However, the world feels less lively and mobs become a joke.
When I go to the wasteland, I know I won’t likely survive. I need to plan my paths out and study enemy movements to get where I need to go. Is it frustrating when suddenly I aggro a group that just so happened to come too close, yes.

I mention wasteland since it is the only place where I feel I I’m not powerful. It’s a nice balance.

In regards to level-scaling specifically, I like it to an extent.
It adds difficulty and makes every fight mean potential death. But when i am forced to fight it becomes a chore. I hate it when I’m trying to travel and then suddenly slow down because an enemy attacked and I can’t run because of how the game is.

Level scaling can be done correctly if implemented in the right way. I shouldn’t have to sigh everytime I “engage” in combat when I clearly do not and not being able to hide or run.

I do not want to one-shot enemies either. What’s the point in that, being able to farm faster? The sense of power comes from the feeling of taking down a difficult opponent due to your skills and not due to your lvl.

I’ve never had a problem with level-scaling, I never liked one-shoting everything. The sense of power for me comes from being able to kill hard enemies.

Am I for or against level-scaling, I’d lean towards for. However, I see where people are coming from.

From what I see:
-People who don’t like level-scaling want to one-shot enemies.
-People who are for it like the idea that anything can be a threat.

I am that kind of player that welcomes that threat.

A suggestion from me is:

  • Allow players to run away or hide from mobs when traveling across the world.

However, level-scaling promotes being in a party more to travel which I do like. Not soloing all the time.

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I prefer level scaling because it means I can find meaningful content in more areas of the game. I can follow and help friends with quests without feeling like I’m doing 100% of the work. I can also take them to higher level areas they wouldn’t otherwise survive, where I feel more powerful, but it’s not completely lopsided in areas they would normally be.

I don’t have a problem avoiding getting into combat in lower level areas, for the most part. There are some areas (like a certain bridge in the rainforest) where monsters are packed pretty tightly together, but I’m ok with that.

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I truly hate level scaling . Back in OG orbus it was helpful (in dungeons) due to the effort it use to take getting to max level. I enjoyed helping new players through dungeons in OG.

In reborn it strips every sense of accomplishment. Gear ? What’s the point … leveling … doesn’t matter. Still die to level 1 mobs.

It was such a good feeling going back and killing mobs that gave you trouble while leveling in OG. It felt good going after harder mobs to be rewarded for it. It was progression and you picked your difficulty by what level you moved to different zones. I was exploring the tradu mines as a level 4 and that made it much more of a thrill sneaking arround mobs in lamavora.

It was progress when you had enough reagents to use them to shorten walks while questing.

It was progress when your static finger gun finally 1 shot a red tail.

It was progress when you dived thru an active portal as a low level and followed an unknowing high lvl player and tagged his mob getting a high level drop early in the game.

I would be ok with small scaling while in a party but less extreame.

Tho tbh I think reborn being so easy to hit max level … could remove scaling even from dungeons. Make dungeons level 30 , 30+1 , ect.

Tho that may be too far … dont really have a gripe with dungeon scaling. I am ok with it in pvp aswell.

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ok…

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Ha !
they must have changed that since Iast I played.
I remember getting wrecked by saplings.

Look, I get why level-scaling isn’t appealing to some people and why other enjoy it.

I have played games that allowed players to switch between the two that shown me that. Taking on now low level enemies that once kicked your butt, and being able to one-shot them fills me with a sense of accomplishment. That I feel that power behind the level. 100% I get that.

But sometimes you get bored of camping a spot, watching as other max levels do the same thing as you - one-shoting those enemies, it makes it feel less personal. Or, you feel better taking revenge on your enemies by figuring out better tactics to get a more personal sense of pride.

On the other hand, I get where the devs are coming from. Activity by introducing dailies and weeklies, allowing new players to get to know the area they are in before moving to another. Removing (well, limiting) the “oh, I’ll just camp here at the low levels and one-shot enemies”, and offering and promoting more activity.

I believe compromises can be made while level-scaling could be a thing.

  • have certain areas level-scaled.
  • party level-scaling.
    (Ideas to help the devs how to better shape their ideas)

Seeing as though they have a vision for what they want their game to be, It would be beneficial to talk to them about what they want and see if our concerns can be implemented to help support and shape their game.

If the last two posts doesn’t say “the devs are willing to take feedback into consideration” then I don’t know what will.

I am sure that they want to keep there players happy but they can’t keep everyone happy. Not without throwing there ideas out the door.

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We already have scaled and non-scaled mobs, as indicated by white brackets around the level indicator on the enemy mobs.

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All the more reason to believe that the devs are listening.

Level Scaling is good. You can still rise above it with 30+ gear but it would be ridiculously boring to be able to one shot all but the most powerful shit in the wastelands. To the argument of it makes you feel like gear/lvling doesn’t matter, I don’t agree. At first, I couldn’t battle things in The Jungle, Lamavora, and Hulthines, and forget about Wastelands. Now because I leveled up, I can do all those things. Also getting 30+ gear is far more impactful with level scaling because what would be the point of it if you could one shot most shit with a normal 30 weapon. Now, when you get 30+ gear everything becomes a little easier. No I can’t one shot things outside Highsteppe with my +3 wand, but I can two shot things with 2 fireballs. I still feel incredibly powerful. And tbh if you are dying to low level shit around highsteppe, you are just bad and should probably go learn to play your class instead of wanting to be able to one shot everything and thinking that high level gear is the answer. Lower level enemies are already very easy to kill if you know what you are doing. The way I see it is that ppl who don’t like level scaling want to be gods that can destroy anything in their path with no effort. There already are clear advantages to being high level and having good gear and I never felt like leveling or getting new gear was useless. I’d actually feel that way more without level scaling when my normal 30 wand can one shot most things anyway. Why bother running shards then except for raids?

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Thanks for posting about your opinions on the level scaling @James_B2 and @Indiana_Mishka_Jones. I have not heard from many that wished to keep level scaling as is, so it is interesting hearing a different opinion.

I will say that I am not personally against the idea of level scaling as I like not always being a god like entity and completely one shooting an enemy BUT part of my understanding for the reasons for implementing level scaling was to encourage more groups to form as they ventured out together. As Indiana was saying, level scaling would make it not feel like you are carrying the group and still had to pay attention to the mobs attacking making the reason to group more appealing. I personally believe that level scaling has undermined that intent of encouraging more groups to form. This can easily be observed by comparing the LFG in Old Orbus to Reborn. I also don’t personally hear or see (and this might be because I am not on when people are looking) small groups or individuals asking if there is someone that wants to party up to complete missions or access areas where harder enemies reside.

I think part of the reason might be that as a level 20 in Old Orbus, it was assumed you had accessed the hard to reach zones and you could help walk a lower level player into zones they could not reach alone and the amount of time to accomplish their task would be reduced because high leveled player could “insta kill” enemies that were in the way. I believe this encouraged better community engagement by making it worth my time to find higher leveled players, put up an LFG, and make friends. For higher leveled players it didn’t feel like it would be a chore or time sink because I could help the lower player breeze through their task, even as a musketeer or low dps’er.

I know there are other factors that contribute to what I see as a decline to community engagement with one another, to the bonds made in game by promoting the interaction with high and low leveled players, and to my personal sense of progression but I believe that the implementation of leveling scaling in the over world is a primary factor in my concern.

The tutorial enemies you’re fighting have lower stats than normal level scaled enemies for some reason.

I think most of the players who are fine with levelscaling got zero experience with the OG hence got no clue what we are actually comparing it to… nope you were not able to “oneshot everything” (who even suggested that :smiley: ?), this applied to some areas around Highsteppe and perhaps Rainforest, there you could farm for example reagents, after that it gradually got harder, just as it should be. And the higher weapon you had, the less shots you needed, it was a clear progress.
Mages are a special case tho, the only class not having any significant dmg caps and yea they likely still can one or twoshot everything, I saw mages farming in wastelands in a ridiculous speed… alas not everyone in the game plays a mage… tried musky, bard, paladin, even scoundrel yet? I guess not. For lots of classes it does not even matter now if you got a green weapon, if you are full +4, +5, or not (I’m +4/5 on all the classes I play… believe me I am leveling my dummy right now and it feels like NO difference if I fight a mob with a green weapon or a +4 legendary; this is ridiculous).
In the overworld it hardly makes any difference, not in the starting area, not in the wastelands, nowhere, it is flat same, fights are tedious and long, if you wanna farm (= harvest resources), avoid all fights, that simple.
And the reason is levelscaling, no, we don’t farm weapons only for dungeons or raids, that is the entire point, we farm them to also make our everyday farming easier yet there’s zero reflection of this, while in the OG there well was.

Stupid for those who log on to farm daily, stupid for those who wanna help newbs to progress (so frequently we helped with certain quests in the OG like digging thru the elites in the Rainforest temple area - not “oneshotting” things, but yea at least it was well doable for a lvl 20; I did not experience that in Reborn, yet, except a whole group was around.)
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